Bucky92 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Wow, you'd think they'd see what has happened in the north east and know better!! I hate salt with a passion, along with calcium chloride!! Yeah I have about the oldest Subarus anyone has ever seen around me. It's bad when cars that are 2000 and newer are rusting out already. Sorry guys!! I feel for ya!! I actually found a spot of rust on my Impreza... I will get it fixed this Spring.. have to have the hood repainted ( damn pearl paint) but it was caused by a rub spot from my bug and rock guard. Its also kinda pot luck with rust and cars.. I have seen ones that have never been garaged etc..and not get rust..and other do. Heck my husbands Toyota tacoma.. not a spot of rust on the body..not even underneith.. but the frame was swiss cheese ..Lucky us for the recall..now it has a beautifully treated new frame under it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonist Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I sympathise with you guys. I had no idea how it effects the cars until I saw pics of some of the wrecks. The worst we get over here is rust around the windscreen (a very common problem) from poorly installed replacements. My wagon has a small spot in the rear behind the bumper about the size of half of my hand palm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) Big argument on if its better to wash the car less and have less rust, vs wash it more and have more rust. This applies to places where its "freezing and thawing on a daily occurrence every day it thaws, everynight it freezes" Has anybody ever thought about how salt, reacts with water at above freezing temps, etc. Washing a car on a warmed up day, and not completely removing the salt, then at night when the thawed out car freezes again, and traps the salt and the water around the pinch weld spot weld seams, can cause more rust than not washing the car at all. Salt is not corrosive without moisture. It does react with water, and when you wash the car, the water is not getting repelled in the little scratches, nicks, and underbody crevices. That is where the water goes, and the salt you are supposedly washing off. I have seen people hardly ever wash their car in the winter, and not get rust (apply good wax before the winter arrives) and I have seen people wash their car every otherday, and the car is rusty right away, maybe cause they are washing off all the wax protectant and the moisture with the non completely removed salts, well, cause more rust. In the IOWA winter, its usually not warm enough to apply wax in the middle of winter, and we do get the freeze thaw cycle alot. My recommendation is good WAX before winter, and if you do wash it, make sure you are VERY THOROUGH at removing the salts along the seams. NEVER WAX your car in the middle of winter if there is a slight chance some hidden salts are in there. You are just sealing it in to etch its way to the metal, and bubble, then hole will appear. I would recommend wax before the first salt is spread on the roads, and once after the spring has returned and every square inch of salt has been wipes off, and the car has no moisture trapped anywhere. Edited December 14, 2009 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm going to build a winter Wheeler that I don't care about. I hope that would keep some of my nicer ones from rusting out................. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonist Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I know is probably a little off topic, but do people in the southern states get rust issues from dust buildup? Nearly all the cars I've known (especially those that do wheeling) have a buildup of dust in the bottom of the rear 3/4 panels, the bottom of the doors & the rear lower front guard (fenders). When some water gets in, causes the dust to turn to mud, blocking the drain holes & then the cycle gets worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) Ok, so I have access to the people who actually make these decisions for WSDOT, and I will try to find out why they have started salting the roads. There has to be a reason. I will say this, WSDOT is actually very good, and this really surprises me that they would change the policy, especially since it's bad for the cars! I have a feeling it has to do with budget cuts. Every department is hurting, so it's probably cheaper to get "salt" than to use "non salt" for the roads. I will ask some questions and try to find out what the thinking was behind the switch. I agree that this is totally lame. I will also voice all our concerns to the highest up person I can. Probably won't do any good, but at least I can try! I can't sit around and do nothing! Edited December 15, 2009 by eulogious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 It's a backwards mentality, but I'll probably just end up getting a non-Subaru for winter use. This salt business is a load of crap and I'm not going to let it be the reason I have to take my cars off the road for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Ok, so I talked with one of the guys, and basically they started using salt everywhere last year. The reason, it works, and sand doesn't. That's why they switched. Their reasoning is that public safety trumps saving cars, which is true I guess. I do have to agree with that, public safety is important, since I am part of the public, and I want to be safe on the roads. In this disposable age that we live in, of course this is the mentality. The bottom of the car is rusting out? Buy a new one! DUH! :-\ If sand isn't working, then use something that does. Unfortunately salt seems to be the only thing that works. If anyone wants some more specifics on stuff like the type of chemical they use, where they use chemical instead of salt, when do they switch from chemical to salt, I can probably answer them. The WSDOT Emergency Operations Center is located in my work space, so I have access to all sorts of sweet tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 That's BS. Salt doesn't work. It melts the ice and snow, and then it will just freeze again, it does here anyways. Sand does work, they might have to actually use a little more of it, but it works, or just leave the some snow on the roads, that is also great traction. Another idea, use pea gravel like they use in many parts of Europe!! They spread that on the roads and there is plenty of grip, then in the spring they sweep it back up and re-use it!!!! The only down side is they all have braws on their cars to protect from rock chips in the paint. Just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 It's true that it melts the ice and snow, and then it might refreeze, but it does work. This state is usually pretty good about plowing the roads and keeping the snow off the roads, so maybe that helps with the freeze/thaw cycle? IDK. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the policy and I don't agree with it, but that's the thinking. I am mainly playing devils advocate here I really wish that they would just continue to use sand. This have boat loads of it and they can't get rid of it, but they use salt instead. Even when they put sand down, it now has salt mixed in with it Everytime. Sad times. I did voice my concern, but I was told to wash my car more often if it bothers me, and I didn't want to start a debate about washing your car or not with him, so I left it at that. It really sucks. The only blessing is that at least half of the state doesn't have to worry about this too much, as we don't get too much snow on the west side of the mountains. Also keep in mind I am only talking about state maintained roads. Not city or county roads, so there still is SOME hope out there... The only city that I know that uses salt/brine is Seattle. They started using it this year The environmentalist have kept them at bay, but someone finally debunked a study about the brine/salt killing fish, so the city immediately jumped on the salt wagon Even more sad, sad times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 thanks for doing some checking for us. I gathered the same thing. Just state roads. Either way it still sucks, I have to travel state roads. Like you said though, there is some hope travel county and city roads and be on the safer side. Can you pass on a message to the big wigs for me? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capn_r Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/anti.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/anti.htm yeah, I have read that before. The other day during our cold snap, I had salt caked to the side of my rig. Pure old school, east coast salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/anti.htm Awesome link! That really does sum up the conversation that I had... Way more in-depth, but all those points were made in a round about way. Thanks for that! Everyone should read it. Gives a little insight as to WSDOT is doing about this problem. Breeke, I will let them know! I know that WSDOT is working on getting some new "web 2.0" stuff out there, like a twitter page, and some other cool things, so I think there will be a place somewhere for public comments/comlaints. I will also inquire about that. If I find a link, I will post it here so everyone can complain My uncle is a plow driver for the county over in eastern wa, so next time I talk to him, I will see what they are putting down on the roads and also ask him if he knows what other counties are doing to try to get a better idea of what is really being put down state wide. Since the holidays are coming up, I should be hearing from him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 yeah, I have read that before. The other day during our cold snap, I had salt caked to the side of my rig. Pure old school, east coast salt. Ya last year they bought a BARGE of salt. Yes an ENTIRE BARGE of salt to restock all the maintenance sheds. That should give you some idea of what they are doing... The problem with the anti-icing solutions is that they only work on "dry" roads. If there is any water, it will rinse off. No matter how "good" the solution is. The only thing that works when stuff gets wet is salt. I do believe that the rates that WSDOT puts down on the road is less than some states though, but I honestly don't know because I don't have access to others states date for that. But I do have access to the real time rates the trucks are putting down right now. I can also see the real time status of what is being put down on the road at this min. (salt or solutions). It's good stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I used to work for the County (Lewis) Road crew, and now my buddy does. I asked him what they are using. Sand. simple answer to a simple question. So in conculsion. Lewis County is using Sand, and Sand only. DRIVE COUNTY ROADS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Hill Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I noticed it last week too, here it looked like they mixed it with water and layed it down before the ice hit. At least here in western WA, we rarely see snow, so they won't wip it out too often. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 And this is why I avoid the police-state of Washington. I live in North Idaho, and therefore can enjoy a salt free winter But they're using some sort of liquid de-icer around here... I say all Y'all spokanites and Eastern WA people move over here. Everything's cheaper here!!! Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 And this is why I avoid the police-state of Washington.I live in North Idaho, and therefore can enjoy a salt free winter But they're using some sort of liquid de-icer around here... I say all Y'all spokanites and Eastern WA people move over here. Everything's cheaper here!!! Twitch Find me my exact job in that area and I'm there. LOL....goooooooood luck. :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Find me my exact job in that area and I'm there. LOL....goooooooood luck. :-p And what job is that? You'd be surprised at the job market over here... Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 It's not the actual job, it's what I actually do while at work.....:banana: Job is Systems Dispatcher for the local power company. I control the Power Grid for our county. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3eyedwagon Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 All of you are acting like this is some sort of governement plot to destroy our cars. The fact is that this wouldn't be happening if people didn't complain so much about last winter. The brilliant folks of Seattle even ditched their mayor over the deal. Not that he didn't deserve it for other reasons, but, the snow from last winter was a HUGE part of it. This isn't a problem with the DOT, or THE STATE. It's a problem with ignorant, incompetent, and dangerous drivers that frankly shouldn't be on the road. People whined all last winter because their Subaru's, or Rav4's couldn't make it into the Starbucks parking lot. About 4 minutes of watching ANY news coverage would show all of you that it wasn't a problem with the conditions. It was a classic problem caused by MORONS. I don't know how many clips of FWD, or AWD cars just getting the old Go pedal nailed to the floor I saw. It doesn't matter how many people are pushing if you can't drive the damn car. "News story" after "news story" of idiots mashing pedals, and spinning on small hills compelled the stupid majority that it was a disaster, and we needed a major revamp of how a 3" snowfall is handled. Don't get pissed at the DOT, even though most of them probably do deserve it just for being who they are. Either way, they are just doing what the vocal majority tells them needs to be done. In this case that's make it so they can pilot their Audi's around while staring at the navigation screen without hitting a patch of ice, and actually having to work that POS overly complicated AWD system. God forbid anyone have to take their hands off their triple Chai non fat half calf McDipS*** to actually drive their cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 It's not the actual job, it's what I actually do while at work.....:banana: Job is Systems Dispatcher for the local power company. I control the Power Grid for our county. :lol: Nice. I have no idea where you could get a cakewalk job like that around here. I only have worked like a dog for my pay Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 All of you are acting like this is some sort of governement plot to destroy our cars. The fact is that this wouldn't be happening if people didn't complain so much about last winter. The brilliant folks of Seattle even ditched their mayor over the deal. Not that he didn't deserve it for other reasons, but, the snow from last winter was a HUGE part of it. This isn't a problem with the DOT, or THE STATE. It's a problem with ignorant, incompetent, and dangerous drivers that frankly shouldn't be on the road. People whined all last winter because their Subaru's, or Rav4's couldn't make it into the Starbucks parking lot. About 4 minutes of watching ANY news coverage would show all of you that it wasn't a problem with the conditions. It was a classic problem caused by MORONS. I don't know how many clips of FWD, or AWD cars just getting the old Go pedal nailed to the floor I saw. It doesn't matter how many people are pushing if you can't drive the damn car. "News story" after "news story" of idiots mashing pedals, and spinning on small hills compelled the stupid majority that it was a disaster, and we needed a major revamp of how a 3" snowfall is handled. Don't get pissed at the DOT, even though most of them probably do deserve it just for being who they are. Either way, they are just doing what the vocal majority tells them needs to be done. In this case that's make it so they can pilot their Audi's around while staring at the navigation screen without hitting a patch of ice, and actually having to work that POS overly complicated AWD system. God forbid anyone have to take their hands off their triple Chai non fat half calf McDipS*** to actually drive their cars. AMEN TO THAT! I know way too many people who are completely incapable of driving in the snow. This saying fits in this case, "He who knows the least, knows it the loudest." Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 All of you are acting like this is some sort of governement plot to destroy our cars. The fact is that this wouldn't be happening if people didn't complain so much about last winter. The brilliant folks of Seattle even ditched their mayor over the deal. Not that he didn't deserve it for other reasons, but, the snow from last winter was a HUGE part of it. This isn't a problem with the DOT, or THE STATE. It's a problem with ignorant, incompetent, and dangerous drivers that frankly shouldn't be on the road. People whined all last winter because their Subaru's, or Rav4's couldn't make it into the Starbucks parking lot. About 4 minutes of watching ANY news coverage would show all of you that it wasn't a problem with the conditions. It was a classic problem caused by MORONS. I don't know how many clips of FWD, or AWD cars just getting the old Go pedal nailed to the floor I saw. It doesn't matter how many people are pushing if you can't drive the damn car. "News story" after "news story" of idiots mashing pedals, and spinning on small hills compelled the stupid majority that it was a disaster, and we needed a major revamp of how a 3" snowfall is handled. Don't get pissed at the DOT, even though most of them probably do deserve it just for being who they are. Either way, they are just doing what the vocal majority tells them needs to be done. In this case that's make it so they can pilot their Audi's around while staring at the navigation screen without hitting a patch of ice, and actually having to work that POS overly complicated AWD system. God forbid anyone have to take their hands off their triple Chai non fat half calf McDipS*** to actually drive their cars. Thats a big 10-4. ..now I want a coffee :-p jk jk Twitch-who said it was a cakewalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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