From AWD to 1WD?!?

[snoobies]

Hey guys, I'm new to the board here. The guy from MW Enterprises suggested I come here to get some helpful info about my drivetrain issues. With a repair manual I can fix things pretty well, but I don't understand all the workings of things like this so I apologize in advance if I seem a novice.

 

For starters, I'm driving a 1997 Legacy L 2.2 that is factory converted to RHD for mail delivery. For the last year or so the front end has been clicking, like the CVs are going bad, especially front left. A month or two ago, the CV axle started binding up (what I was told when I explained the symptom) and making the steering wheel jump back and forth, as if the wheel was wobbling and pulling awkwardly against the asphalt. This is the brief history up to last Monday of this week. With the snow here, I could drive through any deep unplowed areas, even stop at the mailbox, and then take off with ease and the AWD seemed to do its job amazingly. At the end of the day on Monday though the binding up came back temporarily, and seemed worse, and there were harsher noises such as grinding/cracking noises rather than the simple clicking. Then I came to work this morning, hoping it would last me just a few more days until I could repair it (finals week this week, hardly any time), and it was as if the AWD had completely disappeared. Also, now instead of just clicking while turning, it clicks very fast when going straight too (inboard joint gone bad too, so I'm told). The biggest concern, however, is that when I pull up to a mailbox and both right tires are on snow, both left tires on pavement, when I try to accelerate the only tire that rotates is the back right, and it spins in the snow. I tried putting the left side in snow, right side on pavement, and the left rear tire was the only one that spun. In both cases, when the one tire spun in the snow, the other tire on pavement did nothing (is this how the rear diff is supposed to work? seems counter-productive). If both rear tires are on snow though, they both will spin. In all cases, I didn't see the front tires spin at all. Therefore, unless both rear tires were on asphalt, I was dead in the water.

 

Nothing of this sort was happening on Monday. If I were in snow, no matter the circumstances, unless I was high-centered I would be able to get out, even going uphill, so I wonder what would have changed that is causing this to happen? Are the front CVs somehow linked to driving the rear, or is it all independently driven? I'm wondering if the fact that my front left CV seemed to deteriorate further on Monday is causing this problem now, or if they are two completely unrelated issues? And why would the front right not be turning, shouldn't the tranny do that directly? I haven't noticed any issues with the front right CV, at least not to the extent of the front left. Checked the boot and it's still in tact.

 

I would appreciate any help you guys can give me with this, since it's my family's livelihood. If my car doesn't work, I don't work, which means no income. I'll be delivering mail with it tomorrow as well, so if you have any other driving tests you would like me to do, let me know and I will do them while I'm out. Thanks!

Edited December 16, 2009 by snoobies

[frag]

Your description of what's happening at the rear is normal. With a regular diff, if one wheel spins then the other gets no power.

What's happening at the front is maybe the same. If you left CV is completely shot and no longer transmits power to the wheel, it's exactly as if your left wheel was spinning on bare ice. No power is getting to the right one.

Check to se if the left half shaft is connected to the wheel. If not, that's the problem.

[Breeke]

Get new front oem axles!

[Rooster2]

Get new front oem axles!

 

Ditto..........same thought get new front axles.

[johnceggleston]

ooopps.

Edited December 17, 2009 by johnceggleston

[snoobies]

Your description of what's happening at the rear is normal. With a regular diff, if one wheel spins then the other gets no power.

What's happening at the front is maybe the same. If you left CV is completely shot and no longer transmits power to the wheel, it's exactly as if your left wheel was spinning on bare ice. No power is getting to the right one.

Check to se if the left half shaft is connected to the wheel. If not, that's the problem.

 

Thanks all for your help, and I'm glad to know that at least the rear diff isn't an issue. When I got back to the post office I did crawl under my car to check the axle itself. The only irregular thing I noticed was the torn boot. To the naked eye, everything was still attached. Nothing was obviously broken or hanging down. I suppose if there is something that could internally break, causing a loss of power transfer, I wouldn't have noticed... but with just a quick look underneath from the front, I didn't see any broken shafts or anything. I would still bet that somehow you're right. Is it possible that it could break at a point that wouldn't be visible by just crawling under the front bumper and looking at it toward the rear of the vehicle? It is a night and day difference between Monday and today, and especially with the increase in perceived damaging of the CV with the grinding and breaking, it only makes sense that's why the front is working just like the rear. I wasn't sure if the front axles turned equally no matter what, or if there was the same differential effect of slippage and losing power.

 

I suppose I'll have to take a closer look and see if I can find the damage. Not that it'll really help I guess, because either way I know it needs replacing. I've already ordered one so now I wait. I'm glad to know that this is likely the only issue though.

[frag]

My bet is the break is'nt visible. The joint could be broken and not hang down at all. It's the way it's made, like a rod inside a socket: the shaft is turning freely inside this socket. Like others said, you have to replace the shafts anyway. It will solve your problem.

Have a look. http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/articles/imagePage.php?imagesrc=112_0.jpg&imagealt=Cross section diagram of a CV joint&credit_to=&credit_to_www=

[snoobies]

Well I was just about to order the CV axle but then I thought I'd give the local Checker a call to see what options/prices they had. An OEM remanufactured one would cost me $115 after shipping, but a new Master Pro costs $70 at Checker. Has anyone had or heard any experiences with Master Pro parts, good or bad? It's not just money that is a factor, but time as well. It'd be better if I didn't have to wait around a week for this axle to come by snail mail, but I don't want to waste money on a junk part either. When I asked about OEM parts, the person at Checker gave me the shpill about how all aftermarket parts are required to meet or exceed OEM standards, which I don't necessarily believe, but if Master Pro is decent, I'll surely give it a try.

[edrach]

As the man said, replace the front axles; the one with the torn boot first. I know nothing about Master axles, but I don't think you can go wrong with MWE. You only need to have to re-do an axle you just replaced and all your initial saving with go out the window with the loss of time in doing the same job a second time. Good luck with it.

 

As to the rear diff, that's the way an "open" diff works; once one wheel starts to spin there's not power to the other one. You can resolve that with a limited slip differental (LSD). Do not go with a VLSD since that won't help you at low speeds.

[wtdash]

I got about 6 months out of an Autozone CV axle (don't recall the brand), which I also bought since I needed it 'yesterday'. If you have a Junk/Wrecking yard handy I would put in a used one before another Autozone one. You could also call a local Subie mechanic and see where they get theirs...they surely don't want to do the job again in 6 months.

 

Good luck,

TD

[WoodsWagon]

You've definately snapped one of the front cv's. When they break, you can grab the axle shaft and it will be noticeable loose in the two boots. Replacing it with a remanufactured axle, or even a new axle from any of the major parts store chains is a gamble. I've had some be trouble free for years, and some that had binding issues from the day I put them in untill they failed a couple months later. MWE is known for doing quality rebuilds of subaru axles. The other sources are from subaru $$$, or pulling one out of a subaru in a junkyard.

 

This is more proof that the automatic subarus can lock the rear drive clutchpack hard enough to make the car drive on RWD alone.

 

Do not drive the car like this. Replace the broken front axle and it should be good to go.

[snoobies]

So I'm just in the process of putting the reman'd axle on, and I've got a question about the roll pin. I called Subaru to get one from them but all their parts depts were closed, so I measured the one I pulled out ( 1/4"x1 3/4" ) and got a 1/4"x2" from Lowes. The one I pulled out looked just a hair smaller in diameter, but I'm trying to put the one from Lowes in and it seems almost impossible to get through. Is it supposed to be this difficult, or should it go through with a few decent hits? I'm pounding on this thing from underneath and put the female end of a socket extension around the pin, and after hitting it several times it barely even budges. I had to get the pin started through the axle before I put it on the tranny spline, but now after hitting it for about 3 minutes I think it's barely poking into the tranny spline because I can't pull off the axle, but it feels like it's just barely grabbing the hole on the spline so I thought I'd see if any of you have used a non-Subaru pin before I pound this in for a half hour only to never get it out again.

 

Also, would I be better off just putting the old pin back in instead of using this Lowes pin?

 

UPDATE: The pin was going through the chamfer on the axle assy, but not the tranny spline so that could have added to my frustration, but I would like to hear your opinions on using this Lowes pin vs. Subaru pin, new or old, before putting the Lowes one through, even with both chamfers aligned now.

Edited December 26, 2009 by snoobies

[WoodsWagon]

I've always reused the subaru pins. The axle cup can only go onto the transmission stub one way, so you have to look at whether the hole is going through a spline or a valley and match it to the axle cup before you put it on the splines. One way it's a complete hole the whole way through, the other way it's off half a spline and the roll pin wont go, or if you pound it, will snap off jammed partway in the hole.

[gwilson87]

ah axle replacing, how much I love it. As far as roll pins, I bought a box of harbor freight ones and have been using those. That is when I loose the original from hitting it out and it bouncing to some depths of the garage never to be found again. Like everyone else said, it can only go on one way. If it is 180 degrees then the holes will line up like 60-70% but the roll pin won't work. Where in utah county are you? I might have some time tomorrow before heading back up to northern utah if you want a hand in the morning.

[Sweet82]

Check to see if your CV is 180 out of alignment?

 

I've used nails as roll pins on non-daily drivers.

 

It's fairly easy to pull the CV's I've had them out of the rear in 5 minutes.

You can do it with out a jack.

 

Good luck,

Glenn