99 Outback Sport - Brake Job and a Soft Peddle

[UMT]

I'm a Do It Yourself guy and have done alot of work on my 99 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport. Owned a Forester before this one.

 

Anyhow, I knew the front brake pads were getting thin so decided to replace them. Job went fine other than when I pulled the calipers, the 'brake shims' were rusty, worn off in spots and generally in just poor shape. Called around and just could not find a parts house that had the brake shims so I just put the new shoes in and put it all back together without them. This is my only car so..... Rotors did not look bad at all so I did not replace them either. (They didn't look like brand new, but no big grooves or anything in them)

 

Bled the brakes thoroughly starting with the tire farthest away from the master cylinder.

 

I've now got several hundred miles on these brakes and the peddle is still soft unless I pump it at least once. The brakes seem to operate fairly well but I'm not comfortable with the overall performance of the braking system. The shoes just don't seem to 'grab' like they should.

 

Please, I know I could be berated for not replacing the rotors, waiting until I could get shims, etc... but any ideas here for me? Do those super thin brake shims make that big a difference or are they there primarily for noise reduction? (I lubed the contact points on the pad and there is no noise) Did I miss something while bleeding the brake system? Should I have replaced the rear pads at the same time?

 

All helpful ideas appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited December 18, 2009 by UMT

[johnceggleston]

i think this is a typically brake bleed problem.

 

how did you bleed yours, did you have a helper??

 

no real need to replace the rotors unless there is a real problem.

 

very very rare to hear of a rotor failing and causing a problem, usually it's just vibration during braking.

Edited December 18, 2009 by johnceggleston

[UMT]

i think this is a typically brake bleed problem.

 

how did you bleed yours, did you have a helper??

 

no real need to replace the rotors unless there is a real problem.

 

very very rear to hear of a rotor failing and causing a problem.

 

Yeah, I had a buddy help me. I'm thinking about getting a Brake Bleeder and Vacuum Tester rig though so I don't have to chase around trying to find a buddy that's available.

[Fairtax4me]

i think this is a typically brake bleed problem.

 

how did you bleed yours, did you have a helper??

 

no real need to replace the rotors unless there is a real problem.

 

very very rare to hear of a rotor failing and causing a problem, usually it's just vibration during braking.

 

Unless this happens...

 

 

"My car was making this really loud noise for a long time then it stopped. Now it won't stop."

 

I was tempted to keep that one and make a clock out of it.

[johnceggleston]

Unless this happens...

 

 

"My car was making this really loud noise for a long time then it stopped. Now it won't stop."

 

I was tempted to keep that one and make a clock out of it.

 

unbelievable!?!?

 

i hope this doesn't happen often.

 

i guess this proves the addage, never say never.

[idosubaru]

Your soft pedal is likely the fluid. Either it's old or just needs bled some more. The one man bleeder set ups are really nice for this.

 

If you compressed pistons without opening up the top of the master cylinder you might have compromised the master cylinder, meaning it might need replaced.

 

You are absolutely fine to leave the old rotors and shims. If they aren't vibrating and you properly lube the caliper slide pins (the boots and pins that slide in them), the rotors often never need changed.

 

I've never had noisey brakes in the 30 or 40 Subaru's that have come through my ownership and in all the friends/relatives Subaru's i've worked on. And I've seen all sorts of levels of brakes, pads, rotors, rust, etc.

[UMT]

Thanks, so far everybody! I also found all the old threads on the 'soft peddle' issue so apparently this isn't a new problem.

 

I read all the old threads and will keep plugging away until I get it figured out. When I do, I'll be sure to let the forum know.

 

In the meantime, if anyone has any further thoughts and/or ideas, I would still love to hear them.

[idosubaru]

Also - old rubber brake lines can be weak and need replaced. If the rubber "expands" when you press on the brakes then that leads to a soft feel as well. The rubber is expanding and squishy and reduces the hydraulic pressure available to the caliper. I think the ones most susceptible to this are the ones attached to the front calipers. Steel lines are a good upgrade and prevent this from happening. I have two sets i need to install some day!

[UMT]

I'll be checking those too as that was mentioned in one of the old 'soft peddle' threads.

 

WHILE I'm AT IT: I was looking at the rear wheels. Looks like there is a nut holding the rear 'rotors' (wheel?) on??? I take it that nut has to be removed to pull the 'wheel' and look at the rear brakes???? Anyone know what size that nut is? (I may have to buy a bigger socket than what I have now)

 

Thanks.

[johnceggleston]

I'll be checking those too as that was mentioned in one of the old 'soft peddle' threads.

 

WHILE I'm AT IT: I was looking at the rear wheels. Looks like there is a nut holding the rear 'rotors' (wheel?) on??? I take it that nut has to be removed to pull the 'wheel' and look at the rear brakes???? Anyone know what size that nut is? (I may have to buy a bigger socket than what I have now)

 

Thanks.

 

the big nut is the axle nut, do not remove it with a load on the wheel, it can mess up the bearing. the rotors are not bolted on, once you remove the wheel and the caliper / bracket? the rotor just slides off. unless you live in the rust belt in which case you may have to bang on it.

[UMT]

the big nut is the axle nut, do not remove it with a load on the wheel, it can mess up the bearing. the rotors are not bolted on, once you remove the wheel and the caliper / bracket? the rotor just slides off. unless you live in the rust belt in which case you may have to bang on it.

 

Thanks much! Very nice to know.

 

Guess I'll have to find the 'caliper bracket'... I didn't look very hard behind the hub. I was just thinking of my old Chev/Fords = give 'em a slight wack with a hammer and they came right off...

 

Thanks Again!

[davebugs]

Two thoughts.

 

I've broken several bolts for rear caliper brackets - I keep them in stock now. I don't believe I've ever broken a front one, but rears - yea.

 

Second. Search here for "motive pressure bleeder" or similar.

 

It's a PRESSURE beleeder - not a vacuum bleeder. Get the adapter for the Subaru Master Cylinder and it screws right on. Works like a dream and no friend needed.

 

Think about it. How air can expand easily and by a multiple of the volume. Could kinda make it hard to "suck" a bubble out.

 

Now pushing possible air bubble(s) out seems to make a lot more sense.

 

I don't put fluid in the gizmo (depending on the vehicle I need DOT3, DOT4, or DOT5). IIR like 50 bucks, very useful, and should serve me a long time.

 

Also because it's so simple I actually do flush some of my cars brakeing systems that I know otherwise I'd never do because it's so easy. Coolant and brake fluid are the most neglected fluids in a car in my opinion.

[Fairtax4me]

unbelievable!?!?

 

i hope this doesn't happen often.

 

i guess this proves the addage, never say never.

 

What's really unbelievable is that BOTH of the rear rotors were like that on that car.

And those were on a Mercedes of all things.

 

 

I've used a few kinds of vacuum bleeders and they all seem to have a flaw, they let air in around the bleeder screw so you can't tell if the bubbles in the hose are out of the brake line or what. Plus it's hard to see the difference in the color of the fluid unless the old fluid is REALLLY old.