Newer Legacy Question. 90-94 or 95-99

[The Dude Abides]

Ok so people keep telling me that the newer legacys arent very good and that 90-94 are the best years. So my question is it that the new legacys all had HG problems or only the 2.5 versions. Some newer legacysl 95-99 had 2.2s and i was wondering if these engines were ok. I think there about 30 les hp then the 2.5 versions but i was wondering what you guys thought. Im thinking about saveing up for a legacy:rolleyes: and need to knwo the best verson to get. The older ones 90-94 dont seem to be to visually appealing but are iron tough. The newer ones 95-99 have a better look but i hear people question there relibility.

[Scooby17]

As I understand it there is two main things that seperate those generations. Or 1.5

 

90-94 OBDI less wires/electrical gizmos.

95-99 OBDII More of that good stuff.. (which then might fail)

 

 

90-96 ej22 is non-interferance. New timing belt =

97-98 ej22 is interferance Timing belt boom =

 

a 95 or 96 would prob. be ideal for your needs/wants.

 

I drive a 98. quite reliable. 30k in the last year. never let me down. Many are available here with well over 200K. So that should say they're at least decent unlike 2.5s which are bad for HG reasons (obviously).

[edrach]

Scooby17 is right on. However, if you stick to the EJ22 engine you should be okay for all years that have an EJ22 and avoid the head gasket issue. If the interference engine is an issue for you get an early '96 or earlier.

[lostinthe202]

95-96 EJ22 would be the best years to look for as stated because of the non-interference engine. I haven't owned a 90-94 so I can't speak to them one way or the other (except to agree with you about the looks:rolleyes: )

 

Known items with the 95-99 body style seem to be the climate control lights go out (easy to fix but annoying)

 

The handle for the rear hatch for the wagons tends to rust out. Again an easy fix, but again annoying.

 

The crank sensors can develop a hairline crack that can cause intermittent non-starting

 

The oil pump backplate screws can loosen up and cause lifter tick.

 

That's everything I can think of that is specific to that body style, I'm sure others will chime in if there's more.

 

I've owned a '96 OBW for almost 100k miles and it's been mostly trouble free.

 

It should be noted that all this applies to the manual trans. I have no experience with the auto trans versions. But torque bind is about the only thing I know of, again others will chime in I'm sure.

 

I did have one major event that was outside normal wear and tear that I've read about others having the same problem. Not sure if this could really be called "common" but it's worth noting so that you can look for it if you're shopping around.

 

Again this involves the manual trans. The EJ 5spd and the EA 5spd are very close in design the major difference being the lack of hi/low in the EJ's. The EA's have a large bearing supporting the input shaft directly behind the clutch. The hi/low gears are located above the front differential so there is a bearing on either side to support the works. The EJ has the space for this hi/low set (probably because the Aussies have hi/low legacys) but doesn't have that front bearing but instead has a smaller roller bearing much farther back with only a seal up front. The result is that the large double roller bearing in the rear of the input shaft (common to both trans) is put under a lot more strain in the EJ then in the EA. I replaced mine when I did the clutch at 180k but it had been making noise since at least 150k.

 

Good luck with the hunt!

[bheinen74]

Its not just a engine issue, its a cheapness issue. My opinion, and many others will say too, that interiors are much cheaper in the 95+ than a90-94

Much of the interior of the 90-94 was made with nice fitting plasting, etc, nicer seat materials, plusher carpet, etc etc. The hidden compartments had hinges holding them in place (for the wagons), etc

Then in 95, they went to felt covered cardboard for much interior stuff, and cheaper seating materials, trim etc, the carpet is like tissue. Its like comparing a legacy to a impreza as far as quality. The hidden compartments do not have hinges, its just a cardboard panel wedged in (for the wagon).

 

Just be careful of the FWD version for era 90-94.

Wait for whatever to come along that has lowest miles, with good service records from first owner to last, and is nicely babied

The 90-94 is 100% positively going to be much more able to get to 400k miles.

the 95-99 is 100% less likely to be able to get to 300k miles, and 400k not likely.

Both cars should be fairly easy to get to 250k, the first gen will get there with no major engine work (Ej22) and the secon gen will not get there without engine work (ej25).

 

Now, the kicker, test drive one of each, or several of each, and report your findings before making a deal.

Edited December 27, 2009 by bheinen74

[The Dude Abides]

I havent found a decent legacy to testdrive yet.

[idosubaru]

Looks, newer, and nicer are what I like about the newer stuff.

 

The lower end legacy's are just that - lower end. If you don't like cheap trim and low end feel don't get an impreza and don't get a brighton or L model Legacy or plan on some upgrades. I wouldn't want an early gen legacy nor would i want a low end base model 95-99, they're equally low end. Subaru just offered more trim levels, not got cheap in my opinion. Get the cheap trim levels and yeah they're cheap - roll up windows still, really?

 

The problem is the nice ones also get the EJ25. But that has a silver lining since it's easy to buy a nice one cheap as dirt with a blown motor (I...and others, have done it plenty of times). I'd look for an LSi, SUS, OBW, or GT with a blown motor or trans. Go test drive one with larger brakes, wheels, leather heated seats, etc: you won't get the feel of cheap or a step backwards. Then drop an EJ22 in it. You get all the niceness of a nice car without an EJ25.

 

The nicer models also come with nicer rims, 15" or 16" aluminum wheels, dual piston front calipers, rear calipers (not drum), nicer stereo's, remote entry, and have possibilities of other options like heated side view mirrors, heated seats, etc. That's the best option of you can do the work yourself.

Edited December 27, 2009 by grossgary

[The Dude Abides]

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/ctd/1514249807.html

 

I like this one, but sadly its got the 2.5

[idosubaru]

Yes - like I said all the nicer GT's, LSi's, SUS, and OBW (except 96 MT) have the EJ25.

 

Buy it and swap in an EJ22 then sell the EJ25 - they're very easy to sell for a good price given their propensity to blow head gaskets and loose lower end bearings.

 

That's what I did - I bought my LSi in my sig and yanked the EJ25. I like my LSi way more than any first gen stuff.

 

Hey - go test drive that GT you posted a link to. I personally like leather seats though, I never was impressed with cloth seats. But they're easy enough to swap in later too.

[heartless]

I can only speak to the 1st gen Legacy here - 1990 AWD LS wagon (LS was the "top of the line" model then)

 

The specs:

2.2L n/a

4EAT tranny (gobs better than the old 3EAT's!!)

AWD

All the usual power goodies (windows, door locks, mirrors, etc) including power moon roof (LOVE this feature)

Cruise Control

AM/FM/Casette w/Aux in jack for mp3 player

currently has approx 188K on the clock

avg mpg (with the AWD auto) - 27-29 - depends on conditions and length of drive... not as good as the 5 spd FWD, but not too shabby either considering)

 

have been driving this car for almost 2 years now and am pretty much very happy with it.

 

Working on it is pretty easy - a bit more reliable than my old GL wagon was (altho that old girl was pretty darn reliable!)

 

It had factory air suspension when I got it - blown of course. Looked at replacing those VERY expensive - went the "convert to standard coil-overs" route and am fine with it. It rides and handles fine (better than the old GL did)

 

Timing belt replacement is not really any harder than doing the EA82's - only one belt involved - i made the mistake of letting an inexperienced person do mine the first time (auto shop student - NEVER again!) and had to completely redo the timeing about 2 months later - it jumped time.

 

As noted in other threads many times over - the AWD versions MUST have matching tires all around to prevent the dreaded torque bind. So far, so good with mine...

 

The following items listed by lostinthe202 are NOT just specific to the 95-99's they also apply to the 1st gens...

 

Known items with the 95-99 body style seem to be the climate control lights go out (easy to fix but annoying) (fixed mine)

 

The handle for the rear hatch for the wagons tends to rust out. Again an easy fix, but again annoying. (not really sure about this one - i had to replace the whole rear hatch on mine due to rust thru around the window - darn rust belt!)

 

The crank sensors can develop a hairline crack that can cause intermittent non-starting (replaced mine - easy job!)

The oil pump backplate screws can loosen up and cause lifter tick. (will be double checking these when i next get in there as i'm not sure they were done by the student...)

 

Not really sure what bheinen is referring to with this statement...

Just be careful of the FWD version for era 90-94.

as the other half (madkow) has a 90 FWD 5 spd version of the L sedan and hasnt had any major problems with it other than it could really use a new clutch and it needed that when he bought it a year and a half ago! (and this one has about 210K on the clock!)

 

Overall - we really like our 1st gen Legacys - so much so that the old EA82's are going away . Still have an EA82 3dr coupe here, but will be looking for a new home for it pretty soon...

 

Would love to get my hands on a relativly rust free 5 spd version of the AWD wagon - the auto is ok, but miss my 5 spd...

[lostinthe202]

 

 

Not really sure what bheinen is referring to with this statement...

 

 

I think all he was referring to was that FWD was still an option in the 90-94 model so "watch out" as people have bought one not realizing it wasn't AWD.