RobJ426 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) .2 SOHC manual transmission 125k miles I replaced the timing belt on my wife's Legacy last June. I also replaced the water pump, the swing arm type tensioner and pulley and all the idlers. The bearings in the tensioner had gone bad and was overheating and cooking the belt. The belt was also rubbing on the manual guide above the crank sprocket. Everything has been fine. The last few days she said it was loudly growling when she started it and then it went away when it warmed up. She says she hears it sometimes at highway speed too so it seemed to be related to higher RPMs. I listened to it today and it sounded like the timing belt was flapping against something under the cover during fast idle. Sure enough as the idle came down it quieted down. I pulled the cover off the driver side and the belt didn't seem as taut as it should be or had been in June. I removed the large cover off the rest of the belt and reinstalled the crank accessory pulley/dampener. I started the engine up and it sounded fine and everything looked fine. As I increased the RPMs, the timing belt began to vibrate between the tensioner and thedriver side cam sprocket. The tensioner swung up and down a little bit too. As the engine reached about 3200-3600 RPMs the belt began to vibrate a lot and it also twisted at an angle while it flapped up and down between the tensioner and the driver cam sprocket. The tensioner swing arm and pulley moves up and down with the movement of the belt. Also as I increase the RPMs, the swing arm and pulley move up and then back down with the decrease. I assume some of this is normal to keep constant tension on the belt through the RPM range. With the engine off I can swing the tensioner pulley up maybe about an eighth of an inch by hand while pushing up on the swing arm. All the bolts seem tight and with the belt still in place I don't feel any other play in anything. Does this sound like a weak tensioner already? Is it normal for the belt to vibrate and move? I can't say I've ever run an engine and watched the timing belt so I really don't know what it should do but I do know serpentine belts for the accessories don't vibrate and move much. Is there anything else I might be missing? The 6 month old belt itself looks fine. No unusual wear, cracks or chunks missing. I suspect I'll be pulling this belt to look at all the components but wanted to pick some brains while I look at it. Edited December 28, 2009 by RobJ426 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) is the T belt a Subaru OEM belt? or is it made in China...remember, China puts lead paint on childrens toys, and bad toxins in their drywall, radioactive material in crayons, they make inferior products at a cheaper cost..etc etc etc. Could be an inferior belt, or it simply could have stretched to just outside the spec. limits.. You said you replaced the water pump so i would rule that out. Edited December 28, 2009 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 did you replace it with a new Suabru tensioner or other brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobJ426 Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Everything was Gates which I thought was a reputable brand in belts and accessories. One sprocket was OEM because nobody had it available. The OEM Subaru parts were 4x the cost and way beyond my grasp financially as my employer had just gone out of business and I've only been able to find temporary work since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Gates is a us company, that should be good. out of ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Its a bad tensioner. Where did you get it from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobJ426 Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Kragen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Yep - i've seen this before. Your typo is strange ".2 SOHC" but it's an interference engine - if the belt lets loose you'll be having internal engine damage. This needs fixed immediately, although I've put a few miles on one that's a really bad idea. These tensioners are known to be less reliable than the old syle, even Subaru's brand new ones aren't as reliable as the old style. Maybe it can be replaced under warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobJ426 Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 That's weird, I must have deleted part of my post before posting it. Originally read: 1999 Legacy wagon 2.2 SOHC I was thinking the tensioner was not performing as it should the way the belt was just slightly slack. Looks like the likely culprit. It seemed strange it would have trouble in such a short time but I know anything can fail even right off the line. I'll pull it off tomorrow and take a better look at it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Yeah I agree, that is strange, just bad luck I suppose. But these newer style tensioners aren't as reliable as the earlier tensioners, kind of annoying they went backwards on such an important part. I'm sure it's happened but I've yet to see any of the earlier styles fail, I never replace them. I've seen them seem perfectly fine not moving - perfectly tight - but then slapping when running or accelerating. Your 99 EJ22 is interference so definitely want to fix asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Aren't the mounting holes still there for the old style tensioners? Might be worth it to switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobJ426 Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Thanks everyone. I changed out the tensioner with an OEM one from the dealer. Set me back $190 but it's back on the road and sounds great. I can actually depress the pin on the old one enough with my finger to line up the holes for the retaining pin. It lasted exactly 6 months and less than 6 thousand miles. The cast rim around the pin had been knocking against the boss on the block that the pin normally contacts and left an indentation in it. I'm beginning to agree with all of you regarding this current design of tensioner. The one I replaced last summer was only three years old and had about 35k miles on it. It was completely worn out. That one had been replaced by the dealer when I had all the front oil seals replaced. It used to be that as long as you had to replace the timing belt at a certain mileage you would replace everything else as good maintenence. Now it's become as long as you have to replace the worn out tensioner, you might just as well replace the belt. Thanks again- I appreciate the support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 glad you got it fixed. hopefully you don't have more issues, it doesn't happen enough that i think you'd have a 3rd round! i wonder what makes subaru go from a better design to worse, surely they know this they're seeing it more than we are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 i wonder what makes subaru go from a better design to worse, surely they know this they're seeing it more than we are? let's not forget that you are takling about the car company that refused to admit a design flaw in the 2.5L head gaskets. at least not enough of a flaw to recall them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 let's not forget that you are takling about the car company that refused to admit a design flaw in the 2.5L head gaskets.what are you talking about? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 glad you got it fixed. hopefully you don't have more issues, it doesn't happen enough that i think you'd have a 3rd round! i wonder what makes subaru go from a better design to worse, surely they know this they're seeing it more than we are? Maybe they have adopted the norm, of make it last until just out of warranty. I agree. A good way for revenue and a good business plan involves parts, labor, and service when the warranty is no longer applicable. I would hope for better, but cases like this, i dunno what to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobJ426 Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 This is the tensioner pulley and belt I replaced last June. The bearings in the tensioner were ground down and was getting so hot it discolored the pulley and was frying the belt. At that time I replaced everything else too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 let's not forget that you are takling about the car company that refused to admit a design flaw in the 2.5L head gaskets. at least not enough of a flaw to recall them. So i guess all those headgaskets that were replaced under extended warrenty was just a mass halucination on our part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 glad you got it fixed. hopefully you don't have more issues, it doesn't happen enough that i think you'd have a 3rd round! i wonder what makes subaru go from a better design to worse, surely they know this they're seeing it more than we are? One word. Purchasing. They get inbetween Engineering and Manufacturing and think they know better. Been there many times. Lots of GM products got destroyed by accountants (amoung other car mfg's). nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobJ426 Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 One word. Purchasing. They get inbetween Engineering and Manufacturing and think they know better. Been there many times. Lots of GM products got destroyed by accountants (amoung other car mfg's). nipper That's so true- also in the home appliance business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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