HG & Blown trans

[JM3]

Hi all-

I'm a noob on this forum and did searches on both the classic HG and trans failures. Tons of good detailed info out there but none that seem to answer my question...

 

I have a 2001 outback 5 speed 4cyl with 180K miles that has both an external HG leak and a worn input shaft and or synchros. Basically the car won't stay in 4th gear at all and has now started popping out of 3rd as well.

 

I took it to a few shops here in seattle and they all had pretty much the same story and around the same prices - 1800 for the HG+ timing belt etc and around 2500 for a junkyard tranny or a rebuild.

 

I'm debating actually forking over the 4K for the tranny and HG fix or just junking it and cutting my losses. What other issues can I expect to encounter as the car gets older? am I setting myself up for a being able to use this car for a while or setting myself up for even more costs down the road if I get this done?

 

I am thinking of doing it myself - the tranny swap dosn't seem too hard but if its a common failure I don't want to replacing mine with another crappy trans. Is there a way to tell if the trans is good before buying a used one? The HG issue seems so well documented I feel somewhat comfortable giving it a shot, but I've never pulled an engine before.

 

Thx.

John

[bgambino]

John

Welcome to the board! There's plenty of good info here...and some strong opinions at times too...LOL

 

If you do the job yourself and the car is in good or even excellent cond.....I would proceed. No reason you cannot get 120K more very easily. (maybe it will cost you $1500/1800--including sending the heads for a valve job)

I did my first head gasket job a little over a year ago. I actually had to do it twice as the lower end bearing must have been damaged when it was over heating on the previous owner. The second time I had to drop a rebuilt block in.

There's not much you can decipher on used trannys...if you can drive a car first (someone selling from a complete parts car) ...that would be great. Check the fluid ...the redder the better...the browner is worse...smell it...if burnt smelling, is not good.

And of course the lower the mileage on the tranny the better. There are motors and trannys that are imported from subaru wrecks directly from Japan (JDM they are called...)...google it or see who on the board has used them.

 

If you decide to do it, private message me as I have tons of printed info I can email you that helped me.

[bheinen74]

You have what appears to be the 2 most expensive things to go wrong in a car at the same time.

 

How are the shocks, tires, windows, paint, brakes, wheel bearings, alternator, battery, lights etc etc. in condition.

If one of these are questionable, its probably cheapest to sell it for whatever you can get, and get a good replacement.

 

Or, fix the Trans, and fix the Engine headgaskets, only to have to dump more and more and more into it. Doesnt sound like it was wells taken care of by the previous owner. I would fear fixing this one, unless you have unlimited bank account funding, or if you have friends in Nigeria .

 

BGmbino, umm, i think the way he posted, his is a manual tranny. So the fluid is not going to be reddish pink.

Edited January 3, 2010 by bheinen74

[idosubaru]

well if the rest of the car is in decent shape then you can actually get another reliable and inexpensive 100,000 miles out of the car if you do it right.

 

if you're even considering doing trans work then surely you're up to doing a brake job or the easy 30 minutes Subaru alternator work...just because if you put this much into a car you're probably going to keep it long enough to run into a few minor things like that.

 

If you're going to do it - do it right:

1. replace the head gaskets (subaru only on that part) and the timing belt, water pump, and all the timing belt pulleys (ebay sells kits for them all). If yours are decent you can try and keep your pulleys and only replace the ones that are noisy/not smooth, but with that many miles it might be quite a few).

 

2. get a used transmission.

 

Put the money into doing the motor right - if you want another 100,000 the transmission will be the easy part.

 

Subaru transmissions rarely have issues. The best bet is to just buy a transmission with a warranty or from a wrecked car, then you know what it was junked. Being this new you're going to have to have horrible luck to buy a bad trans. I've gotten quite a few trans, even really old ones, and they've always been good and i always go really cheap.

 

Be careful of warranty though - if yo'ure paying for the install the warranty doesn't cover labor so yo'ure sort of hosed in that regard if it is bad.

 

These guys have two transmissions for only $450, one has 110,000 miles in WA state.

800-551-4489 / 360-262-3550

 

Another WA place: $550 for 61,000 miles 1-360-423-0370

[Fairtax4me]

If the fluid is reddish pink that may be why it's worn out.

 

Depending on your experience and access to tools, replacing the main shaft roller bearing and the synchros on 3 and 4 is a fairly straight forward job. Id say, crack the trans open and do a little poking around. Any bearings that are worn should be pretty apparent, especially the large roller bearings.

 

You can order a lot of the parts through online sources and get them tons cheaper than a local dealer, unless your local dealer is nice enough to match online pricing (rare, but some do).

 

And if it turns out there is too much wear or you don't feel like it's worth it to repair the transmission a junkyard unit shouldn't cost much more than $150 - $200 at a Upullit.

[Qman]

Get the car to Steve at Pacific Import Auto in Spanaway. They will take care fo you. They are closed Monday. Call 253-536-0389. You'll speak to Dave or Steve.

 

Both of these issues are quite common, despite what others might claim. And not the end of the usefulness of the vehicle.

 

The trans issue is probably Bearing related. Seen it several times. The bearing starts to wearout causing play in the input shaft. The bad thing is that this play can cause the aluminum to round out as well. It may be possible to just replace the bearing and you may be OK. Steve repaired my trans this way.

 

The head gasket issue is just a matter of replacing the gaskets. And the other components neccessary to complete the job. Timing belt, water pump, cam and crank seals, rear main. And depending on miles and condition maybe even the clutch. It is a substantial amount of money but once done you can be looking at another 60-100K miles before any other major service is required.

 

The head gaskets can be done by you to save some money. I would recommend have Steve do the trans work. Buying a used trans will almost always have some sort of issue.

[idosubaru]

Buying a used trans will almost always have some sort of issue.

That hasn't been my experience or the experience of lots of other folks on here. It's not too hard to come up with a good trans, I've yet to be hosed.

[Qman]

A lot of the EJ25 transmissions share the same input shaft bearing issue. The updated bearings are better and will last longer.

[bgambino]

You have what appears to be the 2 most expensive things to go wrong in a car at the same time.

 

How are the shocks, tires, windows, paint, brakes, wheel bearings, alternator, battery, lights etc etc. in condition.

If one of these are questionable, its probably cheapest to sell it for whatever you can get, and get a good replacement.

 

Or, fix the Trans, and fix the Engine headgaskets, only to have to dump more and more and more into it. Doesnt sound like it was wells taken care of by the previous owner. I would fear fixing this one, unless you have unlimited bank account funding, or if you have friends in Nigeria .

 

BGmbino, umm, i think the way he posted, his is a manual tranny. So the fluid is not going to be reddish pink.

 

bheinen

Ummm I stand corrected ..thank you

All the better it is a manual tranny...costs less

And I agree with Gary....if the car looks in good shape, the head gasket problem does NOT mean it wasn;t taken care of....neither does a bum tranny--especially since some here have already stated some issues with them....both are abuse,,,but caused by subaru!

Edited January 4, 2010 by bgambino

[JM3]

Thanks for the advice. Grossgary- where did you get those price quotes from for used trannys?

 

Just how common is the bearing problem in my style manual tranny? Are we talking 50-50 that any used tranny I swap in would have the same problem?

 

It does sound like I may be better off splitng my effors - having a indi subi shop do the HG and swapping in a used tranny.

 

Thanks!

[idosubaru]

Gloyale (or someone) has a detailed thread on repairing the transmission i believe.

 

Just how common is the bearing problem in my style manual tranny? Are we talking 50-50 that any used tranny I swap in would have the same problem?

if you're doing it yourself, get one with a warranty. last used trans i bought had a 3 or 6 month warranty, but i didn't (and never have) needed it.

 

you can search boards like here and other forums to see how frequently things pop up.

 

your best bet is low mileage and from a wreck.

 

and then change your transmission gear oil regularly.

 

how often was yours changed?

Edited January 5, 2010 by grossgary

[aa8jzdial]

For what it is worth.

My 99 Forester tranny (manual) went bad this summer. Replaced with scrap yard unit for $350. All good so far.

Bought a real clean 2000 Forester for the red head. 120k miles.

Input shaft bearings kaput. after about 3k more miles.

Bought scrap yard tranny again, $450.

Grinding noise from center diff area after just a bit of driving.

Have unemplyed Sub certified mechanic (boy does he have some stories of how the public gets taken, especially women) trying to take 2 bad trannys and making one good.

I have had great luck with Subes over the years. I am presently maintaining 6 subes spread over myself, 3 kids and one wife. Sometimes you just have a bad run of luck.

My experience as of late is trannys can fail. I need to find cheap new tranny parts and get over my fear of rebuilding them.

rick

[Qman]

Gloyale (or someone) has a detailed thread on repairing the transmission i believe.

 

it's not even close to 50/50, the actual percentages would be small. i wouldn't even think twice about swapping a used trans. if you're doing it yourself, get one with a warranty. last used trans i bought had a 3 or 6 month warranty, but i didn't (and never have) needed it.

 

you can search boards like here and other forums to see how frequently things pop up, i don't recall trans issues being all that frequent.

 

that is also alluded to by the market. used subaru transmissions are cheap. EJ25's are expensive because the demand is high. i'm guessing that subaru transmissions are cheap because demand is low and failure is low.

 

your best bet is low mileage and from a wreck.

 

and then change your transmission gear oil regularly.

 

how often was yours changed?

 

What are you basing this off of? How many 99 and newer Impreza's or Legacy's have you had to base this on? Again you are arguing your opinion from what others have said. Statements like, "I'm guessing", "Gloyale (or someone)", "i don't recall", ...

 

I can give you case after case of broken and worn late model transmissions. They do not all go bad but they do go bad. To say they do not is just simply uniformed.

[JM3]

Ok, I am am probably going down the route of swapping my tranny for a JY tranny and paying for the HG work.

 

What do I need to know about transmission compatability for my car? Is there a summary of it? I know I need to know my diff ratios - how do I find those out?

 

Thanks

[Qman]

There are a few ways to get the diff ratio's. One is from the part number decal on the bellhousing of the trans. The other is to open up the rear diff and get it from the ring gear. A dealer should also be able to tell from the VIN.

 

Good luck and hopefully you'll get a good one the first time.

[idosubaru]

What are you basing this off of? How many 99 and newer Impreza's or Legacy's have you had to base this on? Again you are arguing your opinion from what others have said.

I didn't realize later model EJ trans were much different than older ones, which I've never seen a problem with. I was sort of lumping them altogether. I'll edit my previous post.

 

In that case - are the older transmissions more reliable, so swapping those in would actually be a better fit even for newer stuff?

 

Might he have another option - pulling the trans yourself and then having a shop or subaru person repair it for you if you know the problem and can get a bead on costs?

[Qman]

I didn't realize later model EJ trans were much different than older ones, which I've never seen a problem with. I was sort of lumping them altogether. I'll edit my previous post.

 

In that case - are the older transmissions more reliable, so swapping those in would actually be a better fit even for newer stuff?

 

Might he have another option - pulling the trans yourself and then having a shop or subaru person repair it for you if you know the problem and can get a bead on costs?

 

There does seem to be a difference. I have seen many have issues with bearing and gear issues. Most are boosted but I have personally had both the input bearing issue and shredded teeth from second gear. I literally removed every tooth from both gears on both shafts. They are not nick-named the "glass box" for nothing. That is why so many people upgrade to six speeds.

 

The only down fall to using the older boxes is gearing. Newer ones have better gear to gear ratios, imo.