Oil pan non-gasket 2.5L 98 legacy

[tnt]

I have a leak at the front of my oil pan. The engine was just moved from a 97 legacy to a 98 legacy. The problem wasn't there in the 97. It's 1 qt per 100 miles. I know because I just drove it from NY to NC.

 

from what I gather from other posts here, I can lift up the engine about 2 inches and get to the rear bolts on the oil pan. I'll use Permatex Ultra Grey (or Grey Ultra) sealant. I'll be careful to tilt the pan forward to avoid damaging the oil pump suction tube.

 

Anything else I should know or be careful about?

 

Thanks

[Fairtax4me]

That could easily be a front crankshaft seal or oil pump seal leaking. Check those before dropping the pan.

[idosubaru]

"oil pan leaks" often are not oil pan leaks. Due to the design of the motor nearly every possible leak on the motor will make the oil pan mating surface wet and look like it's leaking but where the oil ends up doesn't matter. It's sort of like looking at your parking spot in the garage and saying "Oh man my concrete is leaking!"

 

Track it down and verify first.

 

Lots of posts on here about doing oil pan gaskets if it turns out to be that.

 

** i'll add to your description it's not so much about oil pan/bolt access as it is about gaining clearance from the cross member to pull the pan out. the pan is not empty - it has baffles in it and a sump passing through those baffles, you only have very limited room to twist/turn/pull the pan off and that clearance isn't there on all Subarus without lifting the motor.

[davebugs]

A true pan leak would be rare as already pointed out.

 

Usually it's the Crank or oil pump if wet in the front, baffle plate if wet on teh back.

 

Only pan I've ever had that leaked was rusted through, the seal was fine.

 

Oh - they can be a bit of a pain to pry off - to get started that is.

 

And space is a problem as GG said.

 

You'll end up pulling the engine to do it. Might as well do any other maintenance.

 

But start with seals as already stated. Odds are pretty good the pan (and seal to the engine) are o.k.

[tnt]

Let me explain my statement "I have a leak at the front of my oil pan." in my original post. The oil is leaking from the downward turning lip of the front driver's side corner of the oil pan. This is about 3/4 inch back from the back side of the timing belt cover. I don't see how oil from the front crank seal or cam seals or the oil pump could be leaking there. There is no trail of oil from the back of the timing cover across 3/4 inch of block to the front of the oil pan. I'm pretty sure it must be a "rare" oil pan leak. I do need to tuck in a piece of rubber gasket on the bottom of the timing cover, so I'll do that first to check on the crank and cam seals. I was going to let that wait until warmer weather.

 

When I had the engine out for swapping to the 98, I changed the front crank seal, though if I had read some posts here I might not have done it, since it wasn't leaking. I didn't change the cam or oil pump seals, but they were not leaking. I didn't know about the oil separator cover on the back either, so I didn't change that. I did change the rear crank seal. The valve cover gaskets were the only thing leaking so I did change those and they are tight now.

 

In retrospect, I wish I had found this group before I started the project. I'll know better next time.

 

Thanks for all the posts, results of my endeavors will come later.

[tnt]

> The oil is leaking from the downward turning lip of the front driver's side corner of the oil pan.

 

I should have mentioned that the drip there is a little more than one drop a second once the oil is warm.

 

Does anyone know how high in the crankcase the oil is when it is full? If it isn't above the pan to block line, it couldn't be the pan gasket. If it is higher, how many quarts low would the oil need to be before it should stop leaking?

 

I'm not thinking of running low oil to stop the leak , just trying to understand the system better. Does the rate of a drop in about a second seem right for a non-pressurized leak ( yes, size of the leak would matter)? It was losing 1 qt per 90-100 miles on a 700 mile trip from NY to NC. That was about 1.5 hours of driving at 60-65. It was all highway miles except for pit stops for the car, humans, and dog.

[idosubaru]

quart per 700, that is a lot. sounds like you've investigated it fairly well.

 

good luck tracking it down, i've always wondered about the "full" question you asked as well, i'm not sure.

[johnceggleston]

i don't really know so i could be very wrong, but a qt in 700 miles would almost have to be a hole in the pan. i don't think a pan gasket could leak that much. my vote is on the oil pump o-ring, or back plate screws or crank seal.

 

how long did the engine sit in between 'pushing' the 97 and installed in the 98??

 

is there any chance the crank shaft got 'nicked' during the r&r of the seal?

 

could the seal have been damaged? oem seal?

 

Edit: i had the t-belt done in a 95 lego w/ 165k miles. i specifically

requested all front seals be replaced. i do not remember if i requested valve covers done and i know i didn't request oil pump o-ring or screws. i didn't know to ask about them. so the short story is that the damn thing leaked badly after the work was done.

Edited January 6, 2010 by johnceggleston

[tnt]

> It was losing 1 qt per 90-100 miles on a 700 mile trip from NY to NC.

 

The entire trip was 700 miles, the oil loss was a quart every 90-100 miles, not a quart in 700 miles.

 

I don't think I nicked the crank shaft when installing the new seal. That would be a pretty deep gouge to let out a quart in 100 miles and I expect it would have to driip out the bottom of the timing belt covers, not off the oil pan lip. Btw, the dripping was observed after getting home, pressure spraying the front of the car underneath, letting it dry, and watching for leaks while the engine idled. It isn't blowback from in front of the oil pan.

 

I'm going to dig into it now, so I shoudl know more soon.

[RallyKeith]

I don't think I nicked the crank shaft when installing the new seal. That would be a pretty deep gouge to let out a quart in 100 miles and I expect it would have to driip out the bottom of the timing belt covers, not off the oil pan lip.

 

 

Not specifically disagreeing, but the issue with a nick in the crank is the resulting burr and sharpedges that actually tear up the seal and make it non-effective. Doesn't actually take much for that to happen.

 

Keith

[johnceggleston]

I expect it would have to drip out the bottom of the timing belt covers, not off the oil pan lip.

 

 

this sound like it is coming from behind the oil pump. the pump bolts on the the block so it is in front of the pan?? part of the pump hangs down???

[Fairtax4me]

this sound like it is coming from behind the oil pump. the pump bolts on the the block so it is in front of the pan?? part of the pump hangs down???

 

Seconding this. The pump is mounted to the block ( not inside the timing cover) and is sealed with RTV in most cases (prone to leaks when the wrong type is used, and often is). There is also a little O ring that likes to go bad and will leak like a sieve between the block and the pump.

http://beergarage.com/SubyOPump.aspx

Edited January 6, 2010 by Fairtax4me

[tnt]

Seconding this. The pump is mounted to the block ( not inside the timing cover) and is sealed with RTV in most cases (prone to leaks when the wrong type is used, and often is).

 

I can say it isn't the crank or cam seals. I just looked at the oil pump in relation to the oil pan and one of the hanging down drains is right where the leak off the edge of the oil pan was. The area is right where the screwdriver is in picture #1 at http://beergarage.com/SubyOPump.aspx

 

There is a black sealant creeping out from the edges of the pump. It isn't red like the sealant in the beer garage pictures. Due to appointments and weather, I don't know if I'll get to it Thur or Sat, but it looks like I'll tackle the oil pump first.

 

Thanks to all posters.

[johnceggleston]

buy an o-ring for the pump!!!

[tnt]

buy an o-ring for the pump!!!

 

Yep, I will.

[Fairtax4me]

If it's black then it has almost certainly been resealed at some point. The factory uses Three Bond 1215 silicone sealant which is grey in color.

 

That, RTV grey, or anaerobic sealant, will all work for the reseal. You'll find many members here who will swear by Anaerobic sealant.

[tnt]

Update

 

The oil pump is off. No signs of an obvious leaky place. The local Subaru dealer says the o ring will not get here until next Tuesday. That sounded slack to me, but thanks to my volvo I can get around until then.

 

Just for the information:

The parts guy asked a tech about sealant for me. I was trying to decide between the Subaru recommended one and permatex 51813, ala beer garage. The tech recommended Permatex Ultra Grey. I'm planning to go with 51813.

[Fairtax4me]

Update

 

The oil pump is off. No signs of an obvious leaky place. The local Subaru dealer says the o ring will not get here until next Tuesday. That sounded slack to me, but thanks to my volvo I can get around until then.

 

Just for the information:

The parts guy asked a tech about sealant for me. I was trying to decide between the Subaru recommended one and permatex 51813, ala beer garage. The tech recommended Permatex Ultra Grey. I'm planning to go with 51813.

 

I don't have much experience with the anaerobic sealant. But I stuck a penny on a dab that I put on an old CD drive yesterday. I put two dabs actually, I left one open to air. The dab left open to air is still tacky, like it just came out of the tube.

I can't move the penny. It's on there tight.