spikedbeetle Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 Here are the pics of one gasket and head. I had the head off and back on yesterday, then realized that one of the valve seals was messed up. So I took the head off again to take it back to the machine shop. Can I re-use the gasket that I put on yesterday again? I didn't fire it up or anything. I just torqued it down to 71 ft lbs. I also got some antifreeze on it. Do I have to get another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I would get another one - the seal between the graphite and the head/block has been disturbed and it might not bond tightly the second time around. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 I was able to get the heads off in the car, but I think I am going to just pull it and take the whole thing into the machine shop for assembly. At this point I would rather spend a little more to have someone with the right knowlege and tools put it together than to spend a little at a time until I get it right. That would be the smart thing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) 71 ft/lbs is a bit on the high side. Stock is 47 and I take them to 55. I haven't tried any higher because I haven't found it neccesary - I haven't stripped any block threads out yet but I have heard of folks haveing that trouble. Just a sugestion. If you hadn't gone to 71 I would say reuse them and go 10 lbs higher. But...... I would replace them considering the high torque they were under. I don't think you need to have a shop put the heads on - seems like you are doing fine on your own. Maybe have them do the valve's but mounting and torqueing the heads doesn't require a lot of "special" knowledge. Just a little care which I would think you would have more of than some shop. GD Edited February 7, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 Nothing has been stripped. I guess if I bolt them on this time around, I wil lgo lower on the torque. I looked at my papers again. It had two numbers for each step. I guess I thout it was a range, but in reality was ft lbs. and N. something. Wouldn't being overtorqued as much as I was hide possible uneven torquing due to dry studs? Or would uneven torque still cause a leak? I will oil everything up this time if I do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Hard to say what dry threads would do with torque that high - you *never* want to install head bolts dry though - got to get them to turn smoothly with a minimum of "creaking" - that throws the torque to overcome the static friction of the bolt up really high. Oil the threads but more important is the head of the bolt - it needs to slide smoothly against the steel washer. Make sure there are no burrs on the bolt heads where they could grab the washer. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 Well, I was stressed out all night. Still am. I got up at 4:am and loosened the nuts on the second head. I removed the top four. The ones that would be dry. I oiled them up really good and the threads on the studs. I torqued everything back down to what my wrench said was 55 ft lbs. I am going to take the first head in to the machine shop to have the valves checked and have the bad seal replaced. I will have them check for warpage to see if I screwed that up. I also plan to have them check my torque wrench to see if it is accurate. If everything checks out, I will reassemble everything. If it continues to leak or seep coolant out the top, I will probably take the whole engine in to the shop. That is the plan right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) I dropped the head off today at lunch. They are going to look at the valves and fix the valve stem seal that was defective. I asked the shop what they would charge to put the heads on. They said they wont assemble subaru engines...I guess that means I am going to have to do it myself whether I want to or not. I haven't found anyone who can measure or test my torque wrench however. Autozone said I could rent one, but they don't know how accurate theirs will be either. I have a dumb question. I never had to worry about coolant before when it was air cooled and all... How does a thermostat work? Does it open with heat or pressure? The first few times I drove the car the temp would get up to 190 and stabilize. The last two times I drove it the temp reading was only 125. Would this be exhaust in the coolant? Edited February 9, 2010 by spikedbeetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I dropped the head off today at lunch. They are going to look at the valves and fix the valve stem seal that was defective. I asked the shop what they would charge to put the heads on. They said they wont assemble subaru engines...I guess that means I am going to have to do it myself whether I want to or not. I haven't found anyone who can measure or test my torque wrench however. Autozone said I could rent one, but they don't know how accurate theirs will be either. I wouldn't worry about the torque wrench too much. If you are worried, go buy one of the old "beam" style wrenches with the indicator needle that moves along the scale near the handle - the calibration procedure for them is to bend the needle arm till it lines up with zero I have a dumb question. I never had to worry about coolant before when it was air cooled and all... How does a thermostat work? Does it open with heat or pressure? They only work on temp. Pressure has no effect on them. You can boil them to see when they begin to open. The first few times I drove the car the temp would get up to 190 and stabilize. The last two times I drove it the temp reading was only 125. Would this be exhaust in the coolant? No - exhaust in the coolant would lead to over-pressure, bubbles, and steam. That would cause overheating, not overcooling. Sounds like the thermostat was sticking open. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) I will look into the other style torque wrench. I am worried about mine. I at least need to compare it. I have had it for 5 years and didn't know I was supposed to store it with everything loosened. No - exhaust in the coolant would lead to over-pressure, bubbles, and steam. That would cause overheating, not overcooling. Sounds like the thermostat was sticking open. GD I didn't see any bubbles when I drained it, but I can't see into my tank where it sits in the car. I forgot to mention that my electric fan would still come on. It is set for 185 -190. There is a temp switch in the radiator. Maybe I need to rethink my cooling system design. My temp sending unit is at the highest point just below the thermostat. I will try to post a picture later. If I drill a small hole in the thermostat to let any air pockets out and up to the top of the system where it can get out, that should fix the temp reading problem and give still work right? Edited February 10, 2010 by spikedbeetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 I was able to have my torque wrench checked. It is very close to accurate. It may be off by a pound. I also got my head back. Turns out I did bend a valve. I guess the best thing to do at this point is to take the other head off and clean everything really good. Then reassemble with oil on the studs, nuts, and washers this time. Is there an easy way to make sure I get all of the green out of the oil pan that spilled in when the heads came off? It wasn't a lot. Right now I am thinking I will have to pull the pan again to clean it uot right. Is there a recommended break in time before I can really step on the gas? This question is for the head gaskets and a fresh valve job. Thanks. Hopefully this is it and the next time I post, It will be running strong again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Is there a recommended break in time before I can really step on the gas? This question is for the head gaskets and a fresh valve job. No, Let`r rip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Yeah - no break in. Just change the oil to get rid of the coolant. No need to remove the pan if it's not leaking. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) Well, I got everything reassembled and running again. There is a slight ticking sound now. Probably where I smashed the thing around the lifter. Other than that I feel okay about how everything is working right now. I need to tune the carbs just a touch. I am still having one problem I had before. I had been getting a temp reading of 190. This was in September. I didn't drive it for while. Then in January just before I replaced the head gaskets, I was getting a reading of 120-125. I drilled a couple of small holes in my thermostat to let any possible air pockets get out. I tested my thermostat in some water on the stove top. It opened just like it is supposed to. My engine feels hot to the touch after running for a while. I am just not sure if it's too hot or not. I think my fan switch is still working. I doubt it is being overcooled, but I guess it's a possibility since the outside temperature is about 30-40 degrees cooler now than in September. If I can find someone with an infared temp gun, what temps should I look for and where? Edited February 20, 2010 by spikedbeetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions. I took it for it's longest drive since installing the subaru motor. I found why my water temp guage was not reading and fixed it. The car ran at 190 all the way to work this morning. After running a few errands, My drive home was twice as long as my drive to work. It ran at a steady 220 or so. It looks like I will be building some duct work, reversing the fan and installing the second fan after all. So it is just a few minor things left. I am going to have the safety inspection done tomorrow. The car runs good and strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Sounds good - 220 is a bit high but not terrible. The thermostat opens fully at 190 that is true, but the fans won't come on till 200 or more so 220 isn't that big of a deal really. Extra cooling fans are never a bad idea though. The infrared guns can be had at Harbor Frieght and places like them for around $30. Never a bad idea to own one if you are a mechanic. There are tons of uses for them - even checking the temp of the grill before you plop down the steaks . You will wonder how you ever got along with that ancient K-type themo-couple and DMM . GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 (edited) I SEE MORE ANTI-FREEZE! I saw one little crystal deposit looking thing. If I shine a good light on the gasket, I can see a little green. At this point it is small enough I don't think I could get a picture of it. I took a piece of red construction paper and held it up to the gasket to see if it would soak anything up. I was just checking to see if I was mistaken, but i was not. The paper darkened a little along the edge. I think I will add a few ft lbs to the heads and just drive it until it quits. I had my fluid at about 220 or so, could my engine have been overheated? I have been stepping on the gas pretty hard, but I was told this should be fine with fresh head gaskets. Another crazy thought I have had is that I have been running an electric water temp gauge. I noticed the new seepage while installing a mechanical gauge to prevent corrosion. Could the electric gauge have caused corrosion of the gasket? Any opinions or suggestions? Edited March 5, 2010 by spikedbeetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I wouldn't worry about it. Sounds minor. Maybe do a retorque just to be safe. No - the gauge will not hurt the head gaskets. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikedbeetle Posted March 6, 2010 Author Share Posted March 6, 2010 Well, I couldn't find my special socket for the #1 stud. I tightened all the others by a couple of ft lbs. Do you think this will be okay or should I make a new "special" socket? I got the car out in the sunlight and was able to see the green better. here are the pics. This is how the last gaskets started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Unless it forms an actual drip or starts overheating - don't worry about it. As much as we would like to think they are...... these just aren't swiss watches and a few minor leaks can be tollerated. It may stop as it ages. I would watch it and see. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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