My92SVX Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I've been doing some searches.. Can't find an answer.. So.. We bought an 88 XT6 as a project.. Friend loves these cars. We bought it with a flat suspension. After we brought it home. We figured out the the compressor was shot. So, he bought a new one. Now, after installing it. It turns on for a second if that and turns right back off. If we jump the relay. It will stay on for as long as we want. However, we don't want to burn the compressor. So. Now we are trying to figure out where to go next.. What is causing the compressor to turn off after just about 1 second after turning the ign switch on? I've read that there is a computer for the air ride. Could that be the problem? Or could it be the relay itself? As a side note.. Even with the compressor running for about 10 minutes as we were testing the other components.. We can't manage to get the tank to fill with air. And we can't get the struts to get any air either. When we put a positive and negative charge on the solenoids. we are not getting a click as others have mentioned. I think we have several issues with the suspension. We opened the old compressor. Looked like it was toast.. Car came from NC. Has no rust. I checked the bags. They look great with no rust. Thanks for any help you experts can provide.. As a last resort. We do have another 88XT FWD with coil suspension. However, we really want to save the air ride. Car only has 111,000 miles.. Thanks again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capn_r Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 A lot of info here http://subaruxt.com/ and check these out. http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/AirSuspSumm01.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/AirSuspenFall01.pdf grossgary knows this stuff and is very helpful, he will probably respond to you post soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 The tank has a pressure switch and a solenoid. The pressure switch activates the compressor when low tank pressure is detected. Sounds like one or both may need cleaned. You seem to know how to manually operate the compressor relay and how to manually open the strut solenoids. Open a strut solenoid and jump the compressor. that strut should immediately pump up if the strut relay is indeed open and the compressor is producing adequate pressure. The strut solenoids can be taken apart and cleaned. Basically nothing more then a magnet and disk inside of them. There is a system CU under the carpet under the driver's seat. It can go bad but not often. Rust seems to be the only thing to kill them. May want to take a look at it checking the grounding point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themoneypit Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 i have an 88 xt6 (and have had several others as well) try jacking the car up in the rear as those are supposed to fill first the way the system is designed. have the compressor running and lower the jack quickly say half way and stop it again. sometimes they need a jolt like that to get them to start working again. there is a computer underneath the drivers seat that usually does not go bad especially if its rust free. seeing as you have no idea how long its been flat, try giving them a jolt. or even get the compressor running and drive it around the block and hit a few bumps. sometimes thatll get them to inflate as well. problem is, once you start having problems with the system, it almost is a guaranty that itll always give you problems. when the compressor is running, is it pumping air into the system?? it could be a leak somewhere in the system that prevents it from airing up as well. theres o-rings at each fitting that should be replaced and on the fronts where it screws into the strut theres an oring that should be seated in the top of the strut. while its running, walk around the car and see if you can hear air leaking anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 it's probably a leak or the tank sensor/solenoid is fouled. or it's just "stuck" from sitting flat so long like he said. but at the same time the compressor probably may have failed previously from running too much. your best bet is to put your efforts into a coil over conversion. that stuff is covered here and super well documented on subaruxt.com. the air suspension system is really nice, don't get me wrong, but it's awfully symptomatic with age. having sat for so long the air bags may be compromised, the rubber is dry, cracked and pitted from the rusted struts, one or more of the 2 dozen orings in the system is bad, the sensors are plugged with corrosion, the tabs on the fittings crack with age, the base of the fittings on the drier crack often, the valves in the compressor and solenoid in the tank can get corroded...etc. it turns into a nightmare and makes the car no fun to own. here's a plan to keep to keep these systems reliable: go through and replace all the orings - at the compressor and each strut. this will also show you any bad fittings (the tabs or bases often crack causing leaks). replace any of those that are bad. remove and clean the tank solenoid and pressure sensor. treat each strut - de-rust the bases and paint them to prevent further rust (i have a thread on this at the subaruxt.com forum). do that and get the system operational and they're actually very reliable and they do ride very nice. i've never liked a coil over ride as much as the air suspension. and it rides exceptionally nice considering how high it sits. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) I would seriously give thought on ditching the air suspension system, it was "cool" when new, but age takes a toll, its very costly to fix, and very costly to keep maintaining. (think over and over and over and over repairs to keep it) Get some real struts on there, and be happy. (just a one time cost) and you are done. There is a reason Subaru offered it then but didnt continue to offer the air suspension EVER again. It was crap after it aged. Get some decent normal struts with coilovers. Subaru never perfected it to last, and neither will you no matter how much you care about it and throw money at it. Be a winner and convert to normal suspension, or keep tossing coins at it and report your long term results. Edited January 21, 2010 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themoneypit Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 dont give up yet. i agree with gary that the ride is far superior with air ride, and when working correctly its def a cool option. my 88 has it and knock on wood it works perfectly. for the cost of a couple dozen o-rings, and a little elbow grease, its def worth trying to figure out whats up with it. worst case, if one needs to be replaced (which can cause the whole system not to air up), im sure you can find a used one either on here or subaruxt.com. new ones run around 300 or so. i know because i replaced both rears on mine, because the p/o replaced both fronts shortly before i bought it. another option you can do is to go to the local hardware store and get fittings that will screw onto the struts with tire valves and air them up manually. the fronts are easier to do than the backs, but you can atleast see if the fronts will hold air overnight, or while driving, and know if those two are good. on my last 6, an 89, the system would air up, but when driving it the right front would air up to the moon causing the left rear to not air up. in that case, i would park the car in the garage, or somewhere perfectly level, let the system air up until it was level and the system shut off (with no light blinking on the dash) then shut the car off, unplug each solenoid and unplug the relay up front. the car would hold that way for months with no problem. every 3-4 months id have to plug the relay and solenoids back in and do the same thing. still had the nice comfy air ride, but it wouldnt auto adjust obviously. the car was starting to rust, so it wasnt worth replacing the struts at 300+ a pop. however my 88 was from california, a one owner, and super clean. so i didnt mind springing for new ones for that one. keep us posted on symtoms and such that you find and hopefully we can get you up and running here with these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 and very costly to keep maintaining. (think over and over and over and over repairs to keep it)Get some real struts on there, and be happy. (just a one time cost) and you are done. actually the air suspension if refurbished (cheap and easy if you follow my directions above) is reliable and cheap. seal it all up and it'll outlast the vehicle. struts wear - I own a Legacy and have had to replace struts, coils, and top mounts. Parts that air suspensions don't have. But most folks won't put any effort into it and end up where you're saying....frustrated and out a lot of cash. There is a reason Subaru offered it then but didnt continue to offer the air suspension EVER again. Actually Subaru did offer it on subsequent models, though your point still stands, i like the use of capitals on EVER. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My92SVX Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 Thanks for all the input so far.. Just a recap.. When we have the relay jumped.. The compressor is definitely putting out air. We pulled off the connector right before it goes into the driver side solenoid. I can feel air coming out. However, our main concern is why does the compressor turn on for about a sec and turn off again when we turn the ign on.. Could it be a bad relay? Or could it be the computer? On a side note.. I figure I should also add that after having the compressor on for 10 minutes or so.. I loosened the solenoid on the tank. I managed to loosen it so much that it fell off and there was no pressure in the tank.. Mind you this is after having the compressor running for about 10 minutes.. Is the compressor supposed to inflate the struts first? Before pressurizing the tank? I've checked the front strut.. They look great. No rust anywhere.. This car came from NC. The only rust I've seen on this car is surface rust on places where some of the paint has chipped off. Also.. When I had the compressor on. I can't hear any obvious leaks. I have a feeling one of the problems is the solenoids.. I followed the directions on how to check the solenoids. I connected them directly to the battery. I read that they are supposed to make a clicking sound.. I don't hear cra*.. To go one step further. I took one apart. It has a spring with a piston.. When I connected it to the battery. The piston barely moved. Kind of just barely moved. Nothing too exciting. Anyhow.. As mentioned.. I've done a few things. I do think we have several issues.. Main thing we are trying to concentrate on is why the compressor only stays on for about a sec and turns back off when the ign is turn on. Mind you this is without any modifications.. Sorry for being so long winded.. Just trying to be as specific as I can so I can get the HELP.. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 struts won't air up unless the solenoids are opened while the compressor is running. but you know that. not sure why the compressor would be shutting off. have you tried jacking the car up and pulling the struts down by hand? sometimes when they're fully compressed this will happen. it's like they're so far out of limits the system acts quirky. getting the car off the ground and allowing the struts to extend can prompt it to come on and pump up. i would think it's that or the computer. if it were a solenoid, strut, height sensor, or the tank it should at least "try" to air up for more than a second. maybe the previous owner disconnected something or the computer? is the air suspension light coming on at all? i guess if it starts for one second it's actually hooked up though. i am curious to know if the air suspension light is flashing, that's sort of the "check engine" light for the system, it should start flashing. not sure if you can get it to spit out codes like you can for ABS, TCU, ECU, etc but i feel like i've done that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
presslab Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 The air suspension brain is pretty dumb. If one side of the car is lower than the other it thinks you are going around a turn. Bleed some air out of a strut until they are really close in height from side to side. Or just bleed all the air out of everything. I have seen that when working on my air suspension; if they aren't even the compressor will come on for a second and that's it. You can also just let it sit there with the key on and sometimes it will figure it out and start airing up. Overall though I love my air suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Just because the compressor runs, this alone doesn't mean it is any good. If you run the compressor with one of the front strut solenoids open and if that strut does not fully inflate in less than 5 seconds, the compressor is worn out. You stated you have run the compressor for 10 minutes, removed the tank solenoid and found no compressed air. If the tank solenoid is functioning and if the compressor is actually putting out compressed air, where did it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My92SVX Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 struts won't air up unless the solenoids are opened while the compressor is running. but you know that. not sure why the compressor would be shutting off. have you tried jacking the car up and pulling the struts down by hand? sometimes when they're fully compressed this will happen. it's like they're so far out of limits the system acts quirky. getting the car off the ground and allowing the struts to extend can prompt it to come on and pump up. i would think it's that or the computer. if it were a solenoid, strut, height sensor, or the tank it should at least "try" to air up for more than a second. maybe the previous owner disconnected something or the computer? is the air suspension light coming on at all? i guess if it starts for one second it's actually hooked up though. i am curious to know if the air suspension light is flashing, that's sort of the "check engine" light for the system, it should start flashing. not sure if you can get it to spit out codes like you can for ABS, TCU, ECU, etc but i feel like i've done that before. These cars are foreign to me. I have an SVX.. I think they are much simpler. I had no clue these had a light for the air suspension. Where is it located? Who knows what the previous owner did!! Unfortunately I don't have access to the car right now. My friend owns the car and he is 100 miles away. I visit him often. When I do visit,I mess around with the cars. I'll be on vacation for 2 weeks out of state starting next Thursday. So, unfortunately I can't do anything until I get back... However, I've been getting some great info. I will definitely jack up the car and check the computer(under the driver seat) See what happens then.. I will keep everyone updated.. All the input is very much appreciated.. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My92SVX Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Just because the compressor runs, this alone doesn't mean it is any good. If you run the compressor with one of the front strut solenoids open and if that strut does not fully inflate in less than 5 seconds, the compressor is worn out. You stated you have run the compressor for 10 minutes, removed the tank solenoid and found no compressed air. If the tank solenoid is functioning and if the compressor is actually putting out compressed air, where did it go? The compressor is new. I know there are some leaks at the connections.. Thinking back..That could have been because the air had nowhere to go. It was leaking out of the connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Getting close to solving this then. New compressor, no air in tank, no air through the strut solenoids means the compressed air is being lost before making it to the tank/strut solenoids. Just about has to be the solenoids are not opening/clogged or there is a massive leak somewhere between the compressor and tank or at the compressor. Soapy water may be your next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 gotta get those leaks under control. the air suspension light is on the dash - you can't miss it - it's totally annoying and constantly flashing in your face if something is wrong. if the system shuts off or doesn't air up properly the light flashes constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I have an 89 xt6 in my garage, already converted to coilovers, but the air lines and sensors are still present. if you need a specific part shoot me an email milesfox@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My92SVX Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 gotta get those leaks under control. the air suspension light is on the dash - you can't miss it - it's totally annoying and constantly flashing in your face if something is wrong. if the system shuts off or doesn't air up properly the light flashes constantly. I have a feeling maybe the bulb is broken or missing then.. I would think I would have noticed an annoying flashing light. I suspect it broke from when the system failed the first time or the previous owner removed. I really can't wait to get back to mess'n with the car.. You all have given me some good leads on where to go from here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My92SVX Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 I have an 89 xt6 in my garage, already converted to coilovers, but the air lines and sensors are still present. if you need a specific part shoot me an email milesfox@yahoo.com We may have to take you up on your offer.. I suspect the trouble is the computer or one or more of the solenoids.. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themoneypit Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 We may have to take you up on your offer.. I suspect the trouble is the computer or one or more of the solenoids.. Thanks if you took one of the solenoids apart and it didnt move freely, then i would suggest changing out both of the fronts, and the computer from miles if its not too expensive. then take one of the o-rings to a hardware store or auto parts store and buy atleast 2 dozen of them and start replacing them at each connection, but especially the ones that currently leak. but before you go buying new parts and such, air the struts up manually with an air tank or air compressor if you have one and see if they will hold air at minimum overnight. if they dont, then its not worth fixing the system if the struts themselves are bad. to buy the couple of fittings to do this will only cost a couple dollars. my xt is parked for the winter for the most part, and it sits in the garage for months at a time and doesnt lose any air in the struts. i start it ocassionally and will run it around the block here and there, but it stays level and full of air in the interim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobGoob Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 the wagon im going to look at also has air suspension. what are the options for ride control? does it sit higher than normal suspension? can i lower the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My92SVX Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 if you took one of the solenoids apart and it didnt move freely, then i would suggest changing out both of the fronts, and the computer from miles if its not too expensive. then take one of the o-rings to a hardware store or auto parts store and buy atleast 2 dozen of them and start replacing them at each connection, but especially the ones that currently leak. but before you go buying new parts and such, air the struts up manually with an air tank or air compressor if you have one and see if they will hold air at minimum overnight. if they dont, then its not worth fixing the system if the struts themselves are bad. to buy the couple of fittings to do this will only cost a couple dollars. my xt is parked for the winter for the most part, and it sits in the garage for months at a time and doesnt lose any air in the struts. i start it ocassionally and will run it around the block here and there, but it stays level and full of air in the interim. Good point moneypit.. How do we go about buying this fitting? What kind of fitting? How do I get this done? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themoneypit Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Good point moneypit.. How do we go about buying this fitting? What kind of fitting? How do I get this done? Thanks youll need a fitting thatll screw onto the top of the front struts. and a tire valve that will screw into that. basically, take the shorter front air hose off (solenoid to strut top) and bring it with you to a hardware store and ask them for help, tell them what you want to do and im sure they can figure it out. better to go to a true value or somewhere like that rather than a home cheapo, or lowes i think youll have better luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampbrat Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 has anyone followed thru on changing out system to normal struts? I am considering it for my wife's car, if computer and compressor is removed , annoying light should go out , right? Is the coil struts off a wagon a true bolt in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Coil over conversions are done all the time, i have on in my garage now and have owned a bunch that have been converted. no need to remove anything but the struts, just unplug the computer which is under the seat or there's a wiring harness connector by the fuse box to disconnect the computer too. you need to specify what vehicle as the conversion differs a bit depending what you're talking about. but in general any vehicle that's the same platform is a bolt in and simple swap - EA82-EA82, XT6-XT6, EJ-EJ. just get a set of 4 coil overs from the same body style and you're golden. i'm assuming you're talking about EA82 in which case it's really easy just get any EA82 complete set of strut assemblies and swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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