2000 Impreza 2.2 timing belt came off

[eppoh]

Local shop has a 2000 Impreza OB sport that came in for a "timing belt job", but according to the local wrench ( never worked on a Subaru), the AC belt tensioner broke, and the AC belt rubbed through the timing belt cover, and knocked the T belt off. They were doing about 40 when it quit.

 

He thinks the owner may just sell the car cheap.

I am thinking about it, but the last time I had an engine out of a car for major repair was a Chevy 283!

 

So, how much damage is likely to the bottom end, and if none, what am I looking at for heads.

 

The shop owner says he can get rebuilt heads from BAP GEON for 300 a side?

 

I need to figure out if this is a project worth doing with my son- who will be 16 in April, and doesn't want to drive my Lego wagon to school/job.

[johnceggleston]

Local shop has a 2000 Impreza OB sport that came in for a "timing belt job", but according to the local wrench ( never worked on a Subaru), the AC belt tensioner broke, and the AC belt rubbed through the timing belt cover, and knocked the T belt off. They were doing about 40 when it quit.

 

He thinks the owner may just sell the car cheap.

I am thinking about it, but the last time I had an engine out of a car for major repair was a Chevy 283!

 

So, how much damage is likely to the bottom end, and if none, what am I looking at for heads.

 

The shop owner says he can get rebuilt heads from BAP GEON for 300 a side?

 

I need to figure out if this is a project worth doing with my son- who will be 16 in April, and doesn't want to drive my Lego wagon to school/job.

 

no damage to the bottom unless it was run dry or something.

 

since this is a SOHC there is a slight chance there is no damage. i suggest you hang a t-belt on it and see how it runs, maybe do a compression test or leak down.

 

the worst case is bent valves. pull the heads and send then out to be checked/reworked, re-install. this can be done with out pulling the engine but it is way easier if you pull it. especially considering the other work you may want to consider: timing belt, all idlers, tensioner, cam seals, crank seal, oil pump re-seal and o-ring, oil separator plate on the rear of the engine(behind the flywheel/flexplate), valve cover gaskets. do not do the rear main seal unless it is leaking!!

 

if the engine isn't leaking, i'd probably just do the minimum. but it you do it all you should be good for ~100k miles.

 

how many miles?

[eppoh]

Yep, It looks to me that pulling the engine would be best.

 

The T belt cover is off. I tried turning the cam pulleys by hand. The turn easily about 1/4 turn then I can't turn them any more- by hand anyway.

What am in in for on the heads- worst case scenario?

[johnceggleston]

What am in in for on the heads- worst case scenario?

 

bent valves, replace the bad ones. have the head checked for flatness.

 

don't force the cams. all 4 pistons need to be at the half way point to clear.

 

hang a belt on it and see how it runs.

 

BE SURE to read up on the correct timing marks before you do it. lots of subaru first timers get it wrong. links below.

Edited January 25, 2010 by johnceggleston

[eppoh]

bent valves, replace the bad ones. have the head checked for flatness.

 

don't force the cams. all 4 pistons need to be at the half way point to clear.

 

hang a belt on it and see how it runs.

 

BE SURE to read up on the correct timing marks before you do it. lots of subaru first timers get it wrong. links below.

 

Okay, I was able to turn the cam pulleys by hand. Just difficult.

So if I put the belt back on and crank it, could I be causing more damage if there are bent valves?

 

The car has 108,000 on it. Clean in and out with good tires Southern car, but near the coast, showing some surface corrosion on the engine. Maybe that is why the accessory belt tensioner failed.

 

The owner wants 1000 dollars as it sits.

[johnceggleston]

would i let you damage your engine??

 

read up on the proper timing marks, hang the belt and see how it runs.

[eppoh]

would i let you damage your engine??

 

read up on the proper timing marks, hang the belt and see how it runs.

 

Good point. I'll do it.

[eppoh]

Been reading up on the timing belt procdures, but something I don't understand. Some say remove both idler pulleys, some say remove both cam sprockets also.

 

Can I just remove/reinstall the tensioner pulley to hang the belt on, so I can do a compression check and see how it runs?

[johnceggleston]

Been reading up on the timing belt procdures, but something I don't understand. Some say remove both idler pulleys, some say remove both cam sprockets also.

 

Can I just remove/reinstall the tensioner pulley to hang the belt on, so I can do a compression check and see how it runs?

 

it will probably still be too tight to just pull the tensioner pulley. i / most? leave the lower left idler / pulley for last. install it last and then pull the pin on the tensioner.

[eppoh]

Now I am worried. I just read that the Phase 2 , 2.2 engines valves hit the pistons when the T belt breaks. If that is the case, I would be upside in this car if I do buy it.

 

Is that actually true on these, or is it just that the valves hit each other?

[edrach]

Wow, 108K miles; that engine is barely broken in. $1000 for the car is a bit high to my thinking, but worst case on the engine might be $1500 or a little more to repair it. Then you have a 2000 Outback with 108K on it; if it's clean, it should be worth $3500 so you're ahead of the game. Best of luck, whatever you decide.

[nipper]

They MAY hit each other. Sometimes you get lucky. Bottom end will be fine, top end may need work. A snapped belt is actually better then a jumped belt. When the belt snaps everything stops.

 

Just throw a belt on it and take a compression test as a starting point. Stranger things have happened.

 

 

nipper

[johnceggleston]

Now I am worried. I just read that the Phase 2 , 2.2 engines valves hit the pistons when the T belt breaks. If that is the case, I would be upside in this car if I do buy it.

 

Is that actually true on these, or is it just that the valves hit each other?

 

honestly, i don't know. but i do know i have never read a thread here where there was piston, block, rod or crank bearing or actual head damage due to a broken timing belt. just bent valves.

 

and as long as the timing belt is installed properly you will not cause any more damage. and there was/is a thread just this week saying that sohc engines some times get lucky and do not always bend valves. that is why we say hang the belt and see. worst case you have to do a head gasket / valve job, but not all valves will be bent.

[eppoh]

bent valves, replace the bad ones. have the head checked for flatness.

 

don't force the cams. all 4 pistons need to be at the half way point to clear.

 

hang a belt on it and see how it runs.

 

BE SURE to read up on the correct timing marks before you do it. lots of subaru first timers get it wrong. links below.

 

 

The links you provided are gone. Can you post them again?

 

Since the belt is already off, I cannot figure out how to get the pistons positioned to the half way point, so I can set the cams without banging the valves.

[johnceggleston]

they are in my signature, see below.

[eppoh]

Thanks,

All these articles I've seen on timing belts assume the old belt is installed.

 

I need to learn what to do about putting the cams/ crank in time after the belt is broken or off when the engine is running- without doing any more damage.

[nipper]

This is a sohc engine. You wont do more damage. Just set the timing marks up. Make sure its the correct timing marks.

 

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/timing-belt-pump-change-14416/

 

http://www.lovehorsepower.com/SubaruDocs/TimingWaterPump.htm

 

 

 

nipper

[eppoh]

I am thinking about marking the timing belt before I try to put it on. In other words, counting the teeth and marking it so I will have a reference when the belt goes on, kinda like a new belt.

 

Question is, where do you start counting- directly above a tooth, or between teeth?

[johnceggleston]

I am thinking about marking the timing belt before I try to put it on. In other words, counting the teeth and marking it so I will have a reference when the belt goes on, kinda like a new belt.

 

Question is, where do you start counting- directly above a tooth, or between teeth?

 

is the timing mark on the crank sprocket at low spot, belt tooth or a high spot, belt valley/groove??

[eppoh]

Well, that's the thing. I have not tried to remove the crank pulley yet. The timing cover was broken off, so there was no need to remove that pulley, to just put the old belt on and try it. If the heads/or engine are toast, it won't matter right now.

So to answer your question, I cannot see the crank sprocket very well , except enough to see the mark on edge.

 

As long as it is at 12 O'clock, it shouldn't matter, should it, if the count is correct and the cam sprockets are set up.

[johnceggleston]

 

As long as it is at 12 O'clock, it shouldn't matter, should it, if the count is correct and the cam sprockets are set up.

 

correct, but if it runs good with the belt, you then need to decide what else if anything you want to do before you put it back together and drive it.

 

you can also do the count starting from the passenger side cam timing mark. one number to the carnk sprocket and then another one to the driver cam mark.

[eppoh]

correct, but if it runs good with the belt, you then need to decide what else if anything you want to do before you put it back together and drive it.

 

you can also do the count starting from the passenger side cam timing mark. one number to the carnk sprocket and then another one to the driver cam mark.

 

thanks, yes. If it runs good, we will do the whole front end. Belt(s), water pump, idlers, hoses, etc.

[eppoh]

Very weird.

Hung the belt on it. The tooth count was very different than all links I have seen. It worked out to 48 teeth on the passenger side, and 43.5 on the drivers. Yes, this is a SOHC EJ22.

 

Didn't matter though. No start and I could tell the compressions were weird.

 

Took the crank pulley off, to confirm the crank was set at TDC, with the mark at 12 O'clock.

 

I am assuming that the mark on the crank gear at 12 means TDC on #1. It ain't.

 

#1 is the cylinder at front passenger side on this engine- right? Well with the mark on the crank at 12 and the key at 6 the piston on #1 is not at top.

 

TDC on #1 is when the mark on the crank is at 9 O'clock, and the key at 3.

 

So, what am I doing wrong here and why is the tooth count so different?

 

I am 99% certain this is a dealer maintained car, with no mods. It even has a Subaru battery in it.

[johnceggleston]

Took the crank pulley off, to confirm the crank was set at TDC, with the mark at 12 O'clock.

 

I am assuming that the mark on the crank gear at 12 means TDC on #1. It ain't.

 

 

NO, with the crank sprocket in the correct timing position, the pistons are all at the half way point so there is no risk of piston valve contact.

 

i do not know the belt tooth count, but i would double check it now that the crank pulley is off and try again.

 

oh yeah, some one else will have to confirm, but the 2.2L phase 2, 00 - 01, may have a larger belt than the phase 1 and so the count could be different.

[eppoh]

Tried again. The belt jumped about 6 teeth. Is this a one way belt? No marks left on it.