rxleone Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 I have a plan this year of buying a nice tidy ea82 wagon and putting an RS, WRX or even an STI engine into it. How do the 5sp DR gearboxes hold up to this kind of punishment? Any tips or tricks to make them a bit more reliable/stronger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX2FFU Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Not sure on that one. I'd say no because stock 5spds on stock wrx's break. All you can do is try it and see. D/R's are cheap if you do break yours. If you could get an EJ d/r that might be different. Some of it will be how you drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 sure it can. as long as you don't drive like a nut-case (which is how stock WRXs break their stock trannies). the strength of subaru trannies is entirely dependent on driving style, since they get a ton of traction (AWD). if you're smart with the happy-pedal, it'll probably last a long time. honestly, you'll be hard-pressed to find a clutch for an EA82 trans that will hold enough torque to worry about blowing up the trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 you can use a wrx clutch disc........with an xt6 pressure plate.cheers, brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 I don't know why you'd want one with those motors. If I were putting any sort of ej20t, ej22t, or ej25t, I'd want the corresponding trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxleone Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 I don't know why you'd want one with those motors. If I were putting any sort of ej20t, ej22t, or ej25t, I'd want the corresponding trans. Saves you having to swap a whole heap more stuff out - the EJ trans are long then the EA no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 It has little to do with the trans and a lot to do with driving. If you're very gentle with it, it won't matter. If you're launching, racing and beating it it won't hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Saves you having to swap a whole heap more stuff out - the EJ trans are long then the EA no? True I guess. But most people who have a turbo EJ motor, aren't going to want to baby it all the time. Every now and then you're going to want to put some power down, and it'd be nice to have a trans. that can hold that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX2FFU Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Like most said driving style is part of it. That being said. I have personally seen 4 second gear and 2(one was ra gears) 3rd gear wrx 5spds grenade. These were not on shifts but just putting the pedal down and when the boost came on boom. These were not mine but close friends. Now with all that out there. I made 349 whp on my wrx 5spd. It ran for 45k with no issues. The motor went and I sold the car with a good trans. Now also Just for reference. I blew up a front diff in a D/R with an ej22(na). Like I said, I would just try it and see. Yes you will need an adapter plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxleone Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 I'm interested in making my own adaptor plate, but am finding it quite difficult to find a decent plan or schematic for one...anyone have one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX2FFU Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Some sell one. I doubt anyone would just give you a template. Pretty easy to make your own template though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 you can use a wrx clutch disc........with an xt6 pressure plate.cheers, brian great. so you'll have a sweet disc that can take the heat of slipping all the time. since the clamping force of the pressure plate is what determines how much torque the clutch can hold. I highly doubt an XT6 setup can hold more than 200 ft/lbs, certainly not for long. And that's well within the limits of a 5MT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxleone Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 great. so you'll have a sweet disc that can take the heat of slipping all the time. since the clamping force of the pressure plate is what determines how much torque the clutch can hold. I highly doubt an XT6 setup can hold more than 200 ft/lbs, certainly not for long. And that's well within the limits of a 5MT. Do you have any idea what sort of clutch setup would work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Spec clutches lists aftermarket clutch kits for EA82 subarus....but they're horrendously expensive ("Stage 1" is twice what a reasonably priced new, aftermarket unit costs). And have no torque ratings, just "Stage 1", "Stage 2+", "Stage 5" etc. I have no idea how much power these would hold, how hard they grab (how usable daily-driven), etc. But for that money you could convert to an EJ-series transmission and still have some left over AND a choice of clutch setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxleone Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 Spec clutches lists aftermarket clutch kits for EA82 subarus....but they're horrendously expensive ("Stage 1" is twice what a reasonably priced new, aftermarket unit costs). And have no torque ratings, just "Stage 1", "Stage 2+", "Stage 5" etc. I have no idea how much power these would hold, how hard they grab (how usable daily-driven), etc. But for that money you could convert to an EJ-series transmission and still have some left over AND a choice of clutch setups. Really? I'm a little dubious about playing with driveline and suspension parts. I suppose if I did put an EJ 5sp it would be better to basically rip out the EA subframe (axles, suspension, etc) and put in an entire EJ subframe? Or is there an easier way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX2FFU Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Really? I'm a little dubious about playing with driveline and suspension parts. I suppose if I did put an EJ 5sp it would be better to basically rip out the EA subframe (axles, suspension, etc) and put in an entire EJ subframe? Or is there an easier way? Wait. I just realized your in NZ. You might have better access to the EJ series D/R right? And yes most of the ea stuff will probably go bye-bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 And yes most of the ea stuff will probably go bye-bye. no, it wouldn't. nothing of the subframe/suspension would need changed. all that would be needed is a custom length driveshaft......and actually.......a driveline from an automatic might be the right length, since the autos and the EJ 5spds are only about a 3/4" different length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX2FFU Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Only if the diff ratios match. I guess he could get a correct ea ratio diff... Trans mount would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxleone Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Wait. I just realized your in NZ. You might have better access to the EJ series D/R right? And yes most of the ea stuff will probably go bye-bye. Yeah definitely, my brother has a 1999 Legacy with a 5sp DR in it. They are a push type clutch though, so I wonder if I would run into problems seeing as the majority of the EJ turbo engines are pull type clutches? Suppose I could just swap a clutch from the DR to the flywheel. That would make sense. no, it wouldn't. nothing of the subframe/suspension would need changed. all that would be needed is a custom length driveshaft......and actually.......a driveline from an automatic might be the right length, since the autos and the EJ 5spds are only about a 3/4" different length. Forgive me, I'm really quite a noob when it comes to drivelines (except for front axles, seen WAAAY too much of them ) Do the ends of the driveshaft bolt-on or are they somehow splined? Edited January 28, 2010 by rxleone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 you guys can "if" all you want.not a one has the ************in experience.........:lol:kills me...cheers, brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxleone Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 you guys can "if" all you want.not a one has the ************in experience.........:lol:kills me...cheers, brian I know I don't have the experience of doing an actual swap, but I have learned from experience it makes things a hell of a lot easier if you get a lot of good information before you start a large conversion project like this. I suspect by your post you DO have the experience of this swap? If so, any helpful hints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 The internals of an EA box are pretty much the same as an EJ box, so what one will take the other will too. The problem is that both will grenade behind a stock turbo motor if driven abusively. So. What it comes down to is clutch selection. Flywheel and clutch go with the transmission. If you use a pull type EJ transmission, you need a pull type flywheel and clutch. If you use a push type, you need a push type flywheel and clutch. If you use an EA tranny, you need an EA flywheel redrilled to match the EJ crank pattern. You have to use an EA pressure plate, either custom or an xt6 one which has better than 4 cylinder clamping force. You can use whatever clutch disk you want, EJ and late 4wd EA ones are the same size and spline count. By using an EJ tranny, you get EJ pressure plates and flywheels. That's the advantage. My dad and I made our own adapter plate. We measured the points on the two bellhousing surfaces, matched them up on the lower stud's centers, checked against the crank and input shaft centers, and machined it out of 1/2 aluminum plate. If we can make the "plans" you can make the plans. Bust out a ruler and a pair of calipers. And Brian, there's not a lot of "ifing" going on in the thread. Numbchux has been giving sound advice and he certainly has the experience with his wagon. While you may belive that you're xt6 pp wrx disk is the best recipe, the xt6 pressure plate clamping force is nothing compared to the aftermarket pp's available for EJ trannys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) i do not know if the xt6 pressure plate will work or not......but it is one of the things i will try when it comes to putting the trans in..... i just wanted this to be solved already.and when i read everything thus far , i was dissapointed...... another reason to go to an automatic...i guess... i started looking into this about a month ago again.as i finally had all the parts to do it.well, kinda.and was down to fingering out what i needed to do. everyone here is giving good advice.but still none have the experience specifically of what we are speaking about.which sucks...... who's gonna do it first?:lol:regardless , we all need to find a remedy that we like....and can afford......i wanted one of those ej d/r 's from oz.... but that boat did not float..... cheers, brian Edited January 30, 2010 by monstaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 There is a solution, and people do have experience with it. I ran an EA82 d/r and clutch behind my EJ and I replaced clutch disks a couple times a year. I was buying the $30 reman clutch disks from autozone, I belive for a 91 legacy was the car I would look it up under. I was cheap and the labor was free (me!). So that's one solution. An xt-6 pp will help with the grabbing force and lengthen the replacement intervals. Swapping in an EJ AWD transmission is covered pretty well, a bunch of people have done it. Upgrading the internals of an EJ 5spd is covered intesively over on NASIOC. You could also use a 6spd, but it would have to be a 88 or newer EA body to have a tranny tunnel large enough to fit it. You also need a DCDD controler of some sort. That takes money though, and most of the people swapping engines into older cars don't have a lot of extra cash. One other thing to consider is that the older cars weigh less than the WRX's that people are blowing the 5spds out of, so the transmissions may last longer. They can't take shock loading though. No AWD burnouts, no speed shifting, no clutch dumps. All the stuff that makes high power RWD fun is a no go with AWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 My RX tranny has been holding up under 170+ torque for almost a year now. I dont do any hard launches, but I do alot of redline runs. I totally toasted/borked/destroyed my last PP (EA PP, ER flywheel) and didnt have $ at the time for a new one. But I did have lots of used stuff laying around, some of which was given to me (Thanks Ed). Now I'm not positive, but pretty darn sure that what I grabbed out of my pile was a EJ PP. It didnt match anything I had used previously, but it bolted right up to my ER flywheel/clutch. I havent had a problem one with this combo so far. I would rather have a clutch slip a little, than have a tranny grenade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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