Timing belt question

[bobaru]

im doing my 1st one its a piece of cake so far and I dont for see any problems plus thats what this board is for to help people. after all we got you to take you out covers off

 

at least pull the rad, front drive, and plastic cover off and check out your idlers

 

my belt looks new but the idlers are shot....... new belt idlers seals,waterpump on the coffee table right now with the hayes manual

[ktdenali]

Any particular place you get your parts from? Do we need to be picky about parts?

What am I looking at for cost on all these gadgets, if I do the whole shabang?

this is one place I have been looking at https://www.chaplinssubarugenuineparts.com/oe_parts_cat.html

 

There is a very good Subaru mechanic where I live, who does great work for a reasonable price. But last time I went to him, changed an O2 sensor, he got the part from Carquest next to him. I could have done that myself, but the reason I went to him 'cause I thought he would be using Subaru OE parts.

 

Everybody said O2 sensors are very picky parts and we need to use originals.

Seems like its a matter of personal opinion.

[bobaru]

chaplins is a choice ......... i guess theres store in auburn wa thats better from what I under stand. others will chime in

 

DO NOT buy from anything but real suby parts I learned the hard I bought a kit off flea bay. autozone, Orielys, and other sell the same trash All it is is a band aid kit trash trash trash

 

this is the auburn store https://www.1stsubaruparts.com/tollfree.html

Edited February 3, 2010 by bobaru

[idosubaru]

here some of the pictures I took of the timing belt.

"grossgary" - you've asked to see them.

those are great pictures. that's a significantly warn belt, i'd be replacing it.

 

the pulleys will need inspected and often at least one (usually the lower toothed gear idler) needs replaced.

[idosubaru]

here some of the pictures I took of the timing belt.

"grossgary" - you've asked to see them.

those are great pictures. that's a significantly warn belt, i'd be replacing it for good measure. that's easy for me to say since i can do it in no time in my garage, costs $59 for the belt. but it is an interference motor so not something to risk either.

 

the pulleys will need inspected and often at least one (usually the lower toothed gear idler) needs replaced.

 

this is a 100,000 mile interval belt, once you go to do it, do it right with the mindset that you're not doing it again for a very long time.

 

personally i'd drive it for a bit, put a few miles on it to see if it's using any oil, has any leaks, etc. if not, then you can get away with just doing the belt.

[bobaru]

those are great pictures. that's a significantly warn belt, i'd be replacing it for good measure. that's easy for me to say since i can do it in no time in my garage, costs $59 for the belt. but it is an interference motor so not something to risk either.

 

the pulleys will need inspected and often at least one (usually the lower toothed gear idler) needs replaced.

 

this is a 100,000 mile interval belt, once you go to do it, do it right with the mindset that you're not doing it again for a very long time.

 

personally i'd drive it for a bit, put a few miles on it to see if it's using any oil, has any leaks, etc. if not, then you can get away with just doing the belt.

 

100,000 mile belt Im lost I thought 60,000 whats the difference

[ktdenali]

Thanks for all your comments. Again, very very helpful for someone like me, who wishes to know much about mechanics , but doesn't.

 

I drove the car 3000 miles since I first got it. got my oil changed yestreday

It has not used any oil whatsoever, I think. Did not notice any leaks, and I check my oil every week or so.

 

I thought the belts were 60,000 mile-life too, but the first scheduled timing belt change is at 100,000 in the book. So maybe the original one has a longer life or something.

 

I think I will take it to my usual mechanic, and I can only hope he uses good Subaru parts, not trash stuff from local autoparts stores.

 

When he did my wife's '94 Subaru Legacy Sedan, he put a charge of $85 for timing belt.

He also did

R & L cam seals ($40)

front crank seal ($20)

Oil pump o-ring (10)

TB ($85)

TB idler pully ($28)

something else TB (cannot read his writing $36)

Valve cover kit ($45)

1 qt of oil ($3 - when oil was down to $2/qt in the store:-)

and $150 for 2.5 hours of labor

 

so $417 total

[idosubaru]

100,000 mile belt Im lost I thought 60,000 whats the difference

older Subaru's are 60,000 mile timing belt change intervals - like up to the late 90's. somewhere mid-late 90's they are 105,000, depends on the motor. I believe all EJ25's are 105,000 miles.

 

His being a 2000 is definitely a 105,000 mile interval belt.

 

cars101.com is a subaru specific website with lots of info like this if you need more clarification, i'm sure it's there.

[nipper]

t is a 106,000 mile belt, just 100,000 is easier to remeber. Also very few of us do things on the button.

 

www.cars101.com for scheduals.

 

Earlier 2.2s had 60,000 miles due to belt construction. As times marches on belts get better (and requirements set by law change).

 

 

nipper

[ktdenali]

my current milage is 130,000.

 

if that belt looks significantly worn then the previous owner must not have done the 100,000 mile belt change, because if he has, it is only 30,000 miles old and should not look so worn.

 

I am confused!

[bobaru]

t is a 106,000 mile belt, just 100,000 is easier to remeber. Also very few of us do things on the button.

 

www.cars101.com for scheduals.

 

Earlier 2.2s had 60,000 miles due to belt construction. As times marches on belts get better (and requirements set by law change).

 

 

nipper

 

sorry to hijack just a little

 

my car 96 2.2 OBW new today suby OEM timing belt am I still 60,000 miles

[bobaru]

my current milage is 130,000.

 

if that belt looks significantly worn then the previous owner must not have done the 100,000 mile belt change, because if he has, it is only 30,000 miles old and should not look so worn.

 

I am confused!

 

my guess it was not changed at 100,000 you got 130,000 on the factory belt.

[Olnick]

this is the auburn store https://www.1stsubaruparts.com/tollfree.html

 

 

Just to clarify, that is no longer the Auburn store. It used to be, but was sold off a few years ago.

 

Call Mike Scarff Subaru in Auburn WA, 866-528-5282, and ask for Jason in the Parts Department. Good service and great prices . . . he's the one many of us "old-timers" like to deal with.

[johnceggleston]

sorry to hijack just a little

 

my car 96 2.2 OBW new today suby OEM timing belt am I still 60,000 miles

 

in 96, maybe 95, california cars had to have a 105k timing belt, or at least more than 60k. the rest of the country was 60k. so subaru made a cal. spec belt and put it on cal sold cars. the belt is the only difference in the cars. later in the 90s all new subarus went to 105k.

 

at my local advance auto, 2 years ago, the belt in stock was 60k and cost more than the special order 105k belt. go figure.

 

if you use the cal. spec belt the interval is 105k. and on a non-interference 96 2.2L engine why not. you just have to keep in mind that with 180k miles on the engine, or what ever it is, will all the idlers and water pump make it another 100k miles. just plan ahead.

[bobaru]

in 96, maybe 95, california cars had to have a 105k timing belt, or at least more than 60k. the rest of the country was 60k. so subaru made a cal. spec belt and put it on cal sold cars. the belt is the only difference in the cars. later in the 90s all new subarus went to 105k.

 

at my local advance auto, 2 years ago, the belt in stock was 60k and cost more than the special order 105k belt. go figure.

 

if you use the cal. spec belt the interval is 105k. and on a non-interference 96 2.2L engine why not. you just have to keep in mind that with 180k miles on the engine, or what ever it is, will all the idlers and water pump make it another 100k miles. just plan ahead.

 

cal spec:banana::banana::banana:

[bobaru]

Just to clarify, that is no longer the Auburn store. It used to be, but was sold off a few years ago.

 

Call Mike Scarff Subaru in Auburn WA, 866-528-5282, and ask for Jason in the Parts Department. Good service and great prices . . . he's the one many of us "old-timers" like to deal with.

 

thank you im put in my list together

[idosubaru]

my current milage is 130,000.

 

if that belt looks significantly worn then the previous owner must not have done the 100,000 mile belt change, because if he has, it is only 30,000 miles old and should not look so worn.

 

I am confused!

it's either never been replaced or it was probably replaced early with some other major work like if the head gasket was ever replaced.

[ktdenali]

it's going in the shop Monday and we're gonna get at least the TB, as well as look at all the rest of the gadgets.

 

You made a good point, saying maybe it was done early with something else major, which is why it would look as it does now.

 

Speaking of head gaskets, that is another thing I wish I knew if they were done or not beforehand. I suppose there is no way to tell that, unless at one point it starts to over heat on me. So far it has been great.

The only thing I noticed on uphill climb (interstate driving in Montana) that the engine temperature gauge goes up just a little more than the half mark, and then comes right back down.

 

My old '96 Legacy Wagon 2.2 engine - did not do that at all. Boy that was a great car. 28-33 mpg, while the Outback has been 22-26 mpg

[nipper]

The 2000 is also heavier then the 1996, so thats not a fare comparison. If it didnt have more stuff in it you may not have bought it

 

 

nipper

[idosubaru]

The temperature gauge should be rock steady, that's odd for it to fluctuate, mine never do and I've driven steep mountain grades like all the time. I would have the coolant flushed and have the Subaru coolant additive added. That engine is supposed to have a Subaru coolant additive added to it. There's a chance the coolant has never been changed or if it was the mechanic did not add the additive (since that's not normally done on any other Subaru engines). I'd want to know that's done, particularly if the gauge is wavering at all.

 

Make sure they know to bleed the coolant after draining if they're not familiar with subaru's - the plastic bleeder screw is on the top passengers side of the radiator.

 

Also to note - this car doesn't typically "overheat" like the older EJ25 engines do - this one will leak externally and won't overheat until it runs too low on coolant.

 

The first signs of head gasket issues are obvious external leaks at the rear of the engine. Easy to spot.

[ktdenali]

"nipper" I bought the Outback for 2 reasons #1 'cause of its higher clearance. #2 it was a 5 speed - realy hard to come by.

Got tired of bottoming out, as I do a lot of driving in the mountains and dirt roads.:-\

 

"grossgary"

when I bought it i checked the fluids. The cooling fluid was nice looking but not quite good enough for our weather only testing for about +5 F.

So I drained it out, but not all came out. I thought the entire cooling fluid capacity was 5 qts, but I only got about 3.5 qt when it stopped dripping. Unfortunately, no I do not have fancy tools to flush it out with, so some must have got left in the hoses.The car was on level ground.

Then I flushed it with distilled water and filled it back up with Prestone 50/50, which tests for -20F

Here is the kicker - it does not have a bleeding screw. My '96 Legacy did, so I was expecting to use it on this one. Could not find it, so I asked a Subaru mechanic and he said they no longer have them on the 2000s. Too bad.

It is kind of fool proof, because the air bubbles out when the engine gets warm, in the overflow tank. Which I actually saw, you just have to make sure to fill it up to level.

All my fluids seem consistent as of now, not loosing anything anywhere.

 

I never heard of the Subaru additive, where do I get that?

 

I did think it was strange that the temperature gauge fluctuated, as my '96 was solid.

 

This has a EJ252 engine ( at least written on top of the motor) but it says EJ251 in the Owner's Manual. I assume to believe the motor tag.

[ktdenali]

well shoot!!! Speaking of cooling fluid flush. Reading the Chilton manual, I did not realize there were two drain plugs on the engine block. Duuuhhhhh!

That is why NOT all my fluid drained out.

Other guys were telling me to just have it level ground and it will all come out, just takes time.

I might have to do that all over again, now that I have two different, old and new, cooling fluids in there.

"trial by error"

[ktdenali]

well shoot!!! Speaking of cooling fluid flush. Reading the Chilton manual, I did not realize there were two drain plugs on the engine block. Duuuhhhhh!

That is why NOT all my fluid drained out.

Other guys were telling me to just have it level ground and it will all come out, just takes time.

I might have to do that all over again, now that I have two different, old and new, cooling fluids in there.

"trial by error"

 

wonder if this could be the cause of the temperature gauge fluctuation when driving uphill?!?!?

[idosubaru]

the "old and new" coolant is not causing the fluctuating. with 100% water and 100% coolant and all sorts of mixes...heck most folks on here with really old soobs are running with who knows what - and they still hold rock steady. there's plenty of people that don't do regular coolant changes and they experience no cooling issues...until the radiator rots!

 

if changing the coolant "fixes" the fluctuating then something else was wrong - clogged radiator passages, sticking t-stat, etc.

 

all of the it doesn't come out of the block, hoses, water pump, etc, so it's not possible to get %100 but close with the drain plugs.

 

the Subaru additive is available from Subaru and is required in all 2000+ EJ25's...well I'm not sure about the newest ones but I'm just assuming they still use it.

 

if the thermostat has ever been replaced then that could be the problem as well. after market thermostats are rather notorious for being weak...they even look like toys compared to the Subaru thermostats.

[ktdenali]

Got the timing belt changed on Monday. The Subaru mechanics here said they cannot tell if a belt is old or new, by pictures or even by looking at it. Only by miles. Unless of course there is obvious wear and tear. The belt we took out did not look bad at all, but since we have no idea how many miles it ran, we changed it anyway.

 

Interestingly the only things they changed were one idler, nothing else. Nothing like the list people have been giving me. I guess all other, pulleys, waterpump etc just did not have any signs of too much wear, abuse or leaks.

 

They helped me keep the cost low I guess, by only changing what was necessary. ($237 - TB, Alternator Belt, idler + labor)

 

One thing we found interesting, and NOT good. After we took the old belt off, and putting the new on one, we noticed the timing was off 2 notches. How strange, that it even ran.

 

The engine seems fine, no issues, so I am gonna have to keep looking it over and changing fluids and stuff. Next on the agenda will be changing the transmission and rear differential fluid. Book recommends, 75W90.

Any particular brand recommended?

I found that grade of gear oil I need, at WAlmart, the cheapest, but I do not know if I trust SuperTech, Walmart's own brand. that is all they had in that viscosity.

 

???