Phizinza Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Can anyone tell me how they got the right taper angle for the wheel nuts to tighten up properly when they done this mod? Cheers, Phiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 There was a thread within the last year or so where someone posted the inclusive angle of Subaru lug-nuts but I can't seem to find it. Once you know that angle, buy a countersink with that angle from Mcmaster-Carr or somesuch place and you've got it. Hopefully someone who knows will pitch in the answer. If nobody does, get yourself a protractor and find the angle yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I used a 45 degree tapered grinding stone in a die grinder and countersunk the holes a bit. I tighten the two stock holes first, which centers the wheel, then the two drilled holes which helps clamp it down. Remember that the studs only clamp the wheel to the hub, it's the static friction between the hub and the wheel that takes most of the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I bolt an old hub with 2 studs knocked out of it to the back of the rim. Drill from the back through the open stud holes with a tight fitting bit (9/16?) This makes a VERY precisely centered hole, and one tha fits SUPER tight and precise over the wheel studs. Then heres my trick. I don't coutersink the holes. I use standard nuts, or open lugnuts flipped over so the "flat" side rests against the rim. The 2 original holes on the wheel I use regular tappered lugnuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) I know its the friction. But I also know a tapered fitting holds much tighter then flat on flat bolt and wheel. Think about ball joints and how tight they hold without when you are trying to get them apart. Looks like 60 degrees is the angle. Edited January 30, 2010 by Phizinza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) I know its the friction. But I also know a tapered fitting holds much tighter then flat on flat bolt and wheel. Think about ball joints and how tight they hold without when you are trying to get them apart. I see what you are saying. However I've accuired a few sets of redrills that had kinda F-ed up countersinks. It actually causes problems when you tighten those 2 nuts, they pull the wheel offcenter. With those wheels, I get odd vibrations. I can sometimes make them better by not tightening the 2 redrilled holes as tight as the others. Or simply using a regular nut, cause the beveled ones pull the wheel offcenter. I've also noticed that those redrilled holes with bevels keep distorting more an more. The nut seems to start sinking deeper and deeper. Everyones drills, drillbits, and methods, make for at best a random temperance to the steel after drilled. Unless it is perfectly done, I am against countersinking. Edited January 30, 2010 by Gloyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Think about ball joints and how tight they hold without when you are trying to get them apart. Your thinking is understandble......and seemingly obvious and intuitive. But hear me out. It's not really the same thing. In the balljoint scenario the matching bevels are pressed toghether by a 3rd part- the nut. The beveled surfces being pressed toghether actually has a measurable clamp force, just from the friction of being wedged toghether. The nut adds force to the friction of the bevels. Remove the nut and the 2 mated surfaces are still present. In the case of the wheels, The bevel itself can't create any extra clamping force.....remove or even move the nut slightly, and the mating surface becomes irrelavant. The bevel doesn't hold any additional clamp force. I don't think you can develope any more clamping force with a bevel than with flat.....if anything.......the bevel disipates some energy sideways into the wheel, and eventual......especially with unhardened redrill holes.......simply distort the metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 Well, I'm a perfectionist, so..... I would just go 6 stud, but I plan to sell this car and I had trouble with the last I sold because it was modified like that. Now if I just weld up the old holes and drill some new ones it will look original... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Well, I'm a perfectionist, so..... I would just go 6 stud, but I plan to sell this car and I had trouble with the last I sold because it was modified like that. Now if I just weld up the old holes and drill some new ones it will look original... Weld the cast hub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Sorry, I was meaning the holes in the 6 stud wheels. To make them look original 4 stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 If you buy a 60* countersink and do the countersinking in a drill press with your wheel clamped to the table, some cutting oil and run at say 200 or so rpm, you should be able to get nice clean chamfers. Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Ok "Phiz" here is how I did. Since its seems that your not getting a direct answer to your direct question. I first nocked out the two studs that need to be removed off of an old drum. The I bolted the drum up to the 6 lug rim (90 Isuzu tropper) and used what is called an oversized lug nut....(because it seems that the stock subie ones sink to far into the counter sink hole and start hitting the socket edges.) Next I used a 9/16 transfer punch (not to be confused with a center punch)and gave it a good couple whacks with the hammer thus leaving a "center punch" mark on the part that needs to be drilled. Unbolted the drum and proceeded to the next rim unitil they were all done. *** NOTE this proseedure is done from the back side of the rim **** Once that was done on all 5 rims I then proceeded to mount the rim in my drill press (this took some rigging but the key was to make sure the rim was level and secure). I used a 9/16th drill bit and put the press on the lowest rpm setting (200rpm I think) Just used good ol' penetrating spray and proceeded drilling while giving the bit a coiple of shots of spray now and again. *** NOTE this proceedure is done from the backside of the rim *** Once that was done. I flipped the rim over and mounted up my 1/60th counter sink. I used a "stock" hole as a guide to set the depth of my drill press. I then proceeded to counter sink the two holes per rim. I would stop just short of the depth gauge lock down on the press and do a quick lug nut check, and see if it needen some more sinking or not...usually it did...but I just did not want to take too much out from the get go. Also after each counter sink I placed a lug nut in it real quick to see if it "looked" ok. If it did I went to the next hole. *** NOTE this process is perform from the front of the rim *** Once you are all done, clean the rims off and paint if desired. Then mount as mentioned before. Use the "stock" holes to center the rim and the drilled out ones to aid in clamping force. Again I bought "oversized" lug nuts...(the bevel is biger and wider, but the thread angle is the same) to fit the countersinks better...I am a perfectionist too Mount and enjoy. *** NOTE *** how I determined I needed a 9/16 transfer punch and a 1/60 counter sink, was I took the a rim, drum, stud, and lug nut to the machinist parts supplier and explained what I was doing, and he/we then proceeded to get the correct bit and counter sink for the job. So you know its correect *** Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhaRoadkill Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 thanks for the detailed info on redrilling. trying to attempt this without a drillpress seems illadvised. anyone in the corvallis,or area got a set of pre-drilled rims for sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 thanks for the detailed info on redrilling. trying to attempt this without a drillpress seems illadvised. anyone in the corvallis,or area got a set of pre-drilled rims for sale? Yes, but no. I know a very well established forum member (forum wise not monitary) who did it with a hand drill and a 12 pack. And didn't even get started until about beer 6 His came out fine and he beat the living day lights out of them on the trails for 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 thanks for the detailed info on redrilling. trying to attempt this without a drillpress seems illadvised. anyone in the corvallis,or area got a set of pre-drilled rims for sale? Yup. call me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivantruckman Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 here here , I drilled my rims by hand, I even did it sober. I know dangerous... but it worked well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 Thanks, just the info I was after... Now to find some time to get around to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Ok i have a question and be nice because this is coming from a guy who is old school. When i was discussing redrilling the wheels with him because he has a drill press he said it was stupid and dangerious. He said (and this made sense) that the factory holes on the 6 lugs were beefed up and had more metal around where the lugs go then the metal around that and it would in fact be extremely dangerious do drill them like this. Now i know many many of you have driven, and wheeled with these like that but i was curious as to what you though of his less then metal theory. I understand you can flip the nut or taper it down alittle bit but i think his question had valor which is why i ask it to all of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 I'd say because you are using rims rated for 800kg each and putting no more then 350kg on them you probably wouldn't have a problem with it. Also not all 6 stud wheels have beefier centres where the lug nuts hold on, only some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 i'd say because you are using rims rated for 800kg each and putting no more then 350kg on them you probably wouldn't have a problem with it. Also not all 6 stud wheels have beefier centres where the lug nuts hold on, only some. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 (edited) Ok i have a question and be nice because this is coming from a guy who is old school. When i was discussing redrilling the wheels with him because he has a drill press he said it was stupid and dangerious. Considering the wheel is one of the oldest human machines......you wouldn't think people would be so scared of them. the only people who ever have a problem with this mod are people who haven't done it. His point about strengthened metal at the original bolt holes is somewhat true. I wouldn't call it dangerous or worth worrying over, but it is a valid point. Kinda what I was getting at when suggesting NOT tappering the hole. A tapper can be wedged apart further and further, especially if heat affected and not hardened. just making a tight fitting hole and using a flat faced nut on them will keep them plenty tight, and you'll never have to worry about the hole deforming or losing clamp force. The original holes do all the centering. At any rate I'm sure there are hundreds, if not thousands of Subarus world wide running redrilled wheels. The majority of those are likely less than perfect, hand drill jobs. Search this topic over and over and you won't find a single report of someone breaking out the center of the wheels, wheels falling off, or dying in horrible fireballs of doom. Edited February 3, 2010 by Gloyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Search this topic over and over and you won't find a single report of someone breaking out the center of the wheels, wheels falling off, or dying in horrible fireballs of doom. really? Not even one horrible fireball of doom?? hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 UH OH im anticipating a good story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 Well.. I ended up sharpening a 7/8th drill bit I had to the 60degree taper. Centre punched the holes, predrilled with 4mm, then drilled with 14mm bit and then put the taper in with my 7/8ths bit. Worked a treat, and they look nice all silver now. I will have to post some pictures when I get them on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Thought Bill traced his fire to loose lug nuts on the right front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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