EA 82 oil pump replacement

[wagthedog09]

About to replace the oil pump in my 91 loyale due to a ridiculously loud

tick of death. Do I need to go through the timing belts etc. on the front of the engine to get at it? Is there a way to sneak around that stuff?

[idosubaru]

No, timing belts have to come off. Good time to just pick up an ebay kit for $60 and replace those and all the pulleys which are no doubt in well below average shape.

 

The good news is that besides dorking with the covers the timing belts are really easy. Many of us just bust the timing covers off and don't even reinstall them. Makes replacing a timing belt take 20 minutes and you get constant access/checking of the belt/pulleys.

 

Typically a reseal will fix it since it's the seals/orings that go bad, not the pump. In some cases a new pump is needed just because the old one won't keep the oring seated i believe.

[dadpups]

Can I get more info on search terms for ebay kit? Thanks!

[GeneralDisorder]

Depends on the maintenance the engine has received. If oil filter changes were ignored the pump could be torn up inside. Best to inspect and go from there.

 

Just search on ebay for "Subaru Loyale Timing Belt" - should give you plenty of options. The kits are dirt cheap and since the belts only last an average of 50k it's cheaper just to do the aftermarket kit and replace all the components every time. You should replace the water pump at the same time - they are also very cheap and you will be pissed if it goes out shortly after you have done the belts.

 

Don't forget the front cam seals and o-rings and the front main.

 

GD

[ivantruckman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/85-94-SUBARU-LOYALE-1800-GL-RX-XT-TIMING-BELT-KIT-EA82_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5d267abb07QQitemZ400077536007QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

just got this kit yesterday ... do do do do. I'm psychic

[MAFS93LOYALE]

Hey man i got a 93 loyale with a rebuilt ea82 motor in it only about 1300 miles on the motor so far but i got the anoying rump roast clicking driving me crazy would it be easier to adjust lifters or would it be the oil pump? tryed the lucas oil stabalizer made no difference at all...did replacing the oil pump stop the clicking? please let me know i know what you mean when the clicking is driving you nuts

[MilesFox]

save yourself the cost of a new oil pump. you will be fine just doing the oil pump seals.

 

your problem is most likely leaky cam tower o-rings. if you invest in a new pump, you will likely have the tick still if the cam tower o-rings are not replaced.

 

ditch the timing belt outer covers and the covers behind the cam pulleys. do the cam seals while at it.

 

with naked covers, you can replace the water pump without removing the belts or anything else.

[markjw]

would it be easier to adjust lifters

 

The lifters on the ea82 are Non-Adjustable. The remedy's that Miles is suggesting are the best ways to get rid of the tick.

[SuperSuby]

Hi-Long time reader, first time poster. I have a 90 loyale engine that broke a timing belt. I thought, "while i'm here" I would pull the engine, do the clutch, pull the heads and do the valves (leak down confirmed 2 leaking exhaust valves, but good rings.) I was thrilled to find aftermarket gaskets and hone marks in the cylinders, along with an incredibly clean engine. So, valve job, remove and degum lifters with carb cleaner per manual, new head gaskets, new oil pump seals, new orings in head, clean check valves, new t-belts, back together. Great leak down, smooth idle, and an ear shattering clatter in the driver side cam housing. So, MMO to the rescue. 300 miles, still rattles. Constant, indepedent of oil pressure, which is 45psi above 3000rpm, and 15 or so at idle with hot engine. So had lifters (valve lash adjusters)remanufactured by http://www.mizpahprecision.com/, installed reman lifters, and same noise. Did not replace oil pump, saw no damage, and did not measure. However, pressure is good at gauge. What sucks-no clatter before tear down. Did I mess something up?

If this thing did not run so good (minus clatter) I'd junk it. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[asis]

Hi-Long time reader, first time poster. I have a 90 loyale engine that broke a timing belt. I thought, "while i'm here" I would pull the engine, do the clutch, pull the heads and do the valves (leak down confirmed 2 leaking exhaust valves, but good rings.) I was thrilled to find aftermarket gaskets and hone marks in the cylinders, along with an incredibly clean engine. So, valve job, remove and degum lifters with carb cleaner per manual, new head gaskets, new oil pump seals, new orings in head, clean check valves, new t-belts, back together. Great leak down, smooth idle, and an ear shattering clatter in the driver side cam housing. So, MMO to the rescue. 300 miles, still rattles. Constant, indepedent of oil pressure, which is 45psi above 3000rpm, and 15 or so at idle with hot engine. So had lifters (valve lash adjusters)remanufactured by http://www.mizpahprecision.com/, installed reman lifters, and same noise. Did not replace oil pump, saw no damage, and did not measure. However, pressure is good at gauge. What sucks-no clatter before tear down. Did I mess something up?

If this thing did not run so good (minus clatter) I'd junk it. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

 

Any chance your tick is an exhaust leak?

[GeneralDisorder]

First - just a sugestion - but you should probably start a new thread for your problem vs. bumping this old thing - you'll get better response.

 

Second - you should also check the relief valve spring in the banjo-bolts for the oil supply to the rocker spray-bar. This regulates pressure to the lifters by only opening at a specific pressure to allow the excess oil to spray out onto the rocker's and cam lobes. You might be losing pressure to the lifters through this valve.

 

MMO is not my first choice - try replacing 1 of the 4 quarts of oil in your engine with Rislone. Replace a quart of oil with it at every oil change - it is the most effective thing I've ever found for noisy lifters and you can use it for the rest of the life of the engine.

 

Other than that - one thing that's always a problem with EA82's is putting the lifters back into the engine in the wrong order. If they don't match up to the buckets they came out of then you can have issues with ticking. On every engine I've done I always keep track of where the lifters go - if put back in the same order they typically don't have a problem - at least not one that Rislone hasn't solved for me.

 

GD

[asis]

Well since this thread is revived and...what is "rislone"? Lifter noise should be less on a cold (once oil pressure is up) engine right..??? What about a tick that goes away when the engine warms (and still has over 45lbs oil pressure)?

[GeneralDisorder]

Well since this thread is revived and...what is "rislone"? Lifter noise should be less on a cold (once oil pressure is up) engine right..??? What about a tick that goes away when the engine warms (and still has over 45lbs oil pressure)?

 

Rislone. 3rd one down - I have no experience except with the original oil additive product. My grandfather swore by the stuff and so do many of the older mechanic's I have known. It does a good job of slowely cleaning engines that are dirty if you use it at every oil change. I'm not one to beleive in the "repair in a bottle" technique, but I do know that it can work wonders on noisy lifters in EA82's - in fact my GF's '86 sedan recently started in with a pretty loud tick - one oil change with rislone and the tick vanished in about 5 minutes. In the case of her engine - the timing belts and water pump were done very recently by a reputable shop just prior to us buying the car and it's going to get an EJ22 eventually so I'm not inclined to tear into it and find out what it's problem is - might just be dirty:

 

http://www.barsproducts.com/rislone_products.htm

 

As for the temp thing - that's deceptive since it's not always temperature or the pressure that matter - but where the air is trapped. If there is air in the lifters it can take (according to Subaru) up to an hour for the air to work it's way out - so when a vehicle ticks on cold startup and stops after a time it's usually because the lifters are bleeding down as the engine sits - the oil has returned to the pan and been replaced with air. This can also be caused by that same pressure releif valve in the spray-bar banjo bolt - if it doesn't seal properly then air can get in and allow the oil to bleed back to the pan.

 

In the previous example I gave of my GF's car - it started ticking from one or two lifters only on one side of the engine and doesn't stop even after warmup. That led me to the conclusion that it's not bleed-down in this case and is likely just dirty, plugged up lifters. Thus the Rislone treatment - which has worked quite well. I doubt it would work as well for bleed-down symptoms unless the refief valves were dirty and the Rislone cleaned them up and made them seal.

 

GD

Edited April 6, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[asis]

Ok I do think I have seen it in the auto aisle after thinking about it. With the other oil treatments, injector cleaners, fuel additives n such..?

 

I don't think air is hangin in the lifters as long as my tick hangs on untill it warms up tho. I can see that to some point, and as I have run 20/50 (ruh roh ) in it since I got it until the last year or so, I know its slow to prime/purge the system.

My tick..? goes away after the engine is warm enough to idle at its normal speed which, since I have owned it, has been around 1000 to 1100. Hell maybe my tick is more of a rattle er sumin that closes up once hot :-\

 

It had been leaking/using about 1 qt per 5k so I haven't done any more than a continual oil change but this last 5k it only lost 1/2 qt so maybe its due a flush and smoothie

 

BTW, what do you think about detergent vs non detergent oil?

Only ask because I thought I found a deal on a 2.5 gl of 30w, got home to find out it was ND. No biggie since I am using it for small engines and its actually better for that purpose, but it got me to do some research. ND uses parifin which helps seal leaks and also accumulate the sludge. HD suspends the combustion process until its drained or full.

I haven't seen it specified anywhere, maybe all I have read is just before HD was the norm.

 

Thx for your input tho, but I know you really don't care any way since its just a POS EA82 oh btw, with 280,000 miles

[SuperSuby]

Other than that - one thing that's always a problem with EA82's is putting the lifters back into the engine in the wrong order. If they don't match up to the buckets they came out of then you can have issues with ticking. On every engine I've done I always keep track of where the lifters go - if put back in the same order they typically don't have a problem - at least not one that Rislone hasn't solved for me.

 

Can you buy new lifter buckets? The old lifters came out with some effort-there was actually a ridge of metal at the top of the buckets, much like a ring ridge in a cylinder. Reminded me of old timers and their ridge reamer tools. The ridge pealed off of the bucket as a metal burr about .001" thick. I deburred the buckets before replacing lifters (with rebuilt lifters that did not come out of this car, let alone the same holes), all the while wondering if the buckets would be tight enough around the lifters. I saw nothing in the manual re bucket-lifter clearance.

[Petersubaru]

Depends on the maintenance the engine has received. If oil filter changes were ignored the pump could be torn up inside. Best to inspect and go from there.

 

Just search on ebay for "Subaru Loyale Timing Belt" - should give you plenty of options. The kits are dirt cheap and since the belts only last an average of 50k it's cheaper just to do the aftermarket kit and replace all the components every time. You should replace the water pump at the same time - they are also very cheap and you will be pissed if it goes out shortly after you have done the belts.

 

Don't forget the front cam seals and o-rings and the front main.

 

GD

water pumps at "rockauto" ..starting at $12 ..BeckArnley I just bought for $17 this morning

[GeneralDisorder]

Can you buy new lifter buckets? The old lifters came out with some effort-there was actually a ridge of metal at the top of the buckets, much like a ring ridge in a cylinder. Reminded me of old timers and their ridge reamer tools. The ridge pealed off of the bucket as a metal burr about .001" thick. I deburred the buckets before replacing lifters (with rebuilt lifters that did not come out of this car, let alone the same holes), all the while wondering if the buckets would be tight enough around the lifters. I saw nothing in the manual re bucket-lifter clearance.

 

I don't know - that's an excelent question though. I would ask my local dealer or perhaps a head rebuilder...... I have never heard of anyone haveing to do that..... when the lifter's will not come out of the head I typically just leave them be. The last engine I did like that had 250k on it (looked very good inside for the mileage) and I think 3 of the lifters actually came out. 5 did not. It only ticked for a few minutes after being started the first time and hasn't come back to my knowledge. Perhaps the ridge of metal you found, if left in place, is enough to keep the oil pressure up inside the buckets.....

 

GD

[Fokkersauras]

Hello fellow Subaru devotees. I've been searching these boards and trying to find an answer to why I woke up this morning and my 1992 Subaru Loyale 235K had a terrible lifter noise. It was loud and on the passenger bank of cylinders. I read about how these stick and cures from using aftermarket thickners, Risilone, Marvel Mystery Oil, etc etc. I also read that a piece of carbon or built up sludge could cause this to happen. I replaced the engine on this car at 215K, with a Japanese pulled engine (they said about 30K on it). Anyway so the engine probably only has 50-55K on it and I change the oil every 3K religiously. I don't deserve this sticky lifter. Anyway some old timers (probably in their 30's) recommended trying sea foam, or ATF fluid. ATF is a high detergent lubricant from what I read, and it can help clean up sludge and help unstick a sticky lifter. My oil pressure was good so I didn't opt for the oil pump reseal yet. I was about 1/2 way through this oil change period, so I drained a little oil and topped off with a quart of ATF fluid. I drove it about 30 miles to get it warmed up a bit, the noise ceased at about 10 miles. Yes, it CEASED. You don't want to drive too long with ATF in it, so I'll change the oil now while it's hot. I'm going to mobile 1 synthetic, because I got a good deal on it at Costco. I had been using Chevron 10-30, also a good deal at Costco, but a couple of months ago I pulled the valve cover off my Toyota Land Tank and was more than surprised at how clean the synthetic oil kept the engine. NO sludge period. The cam and valve train were bright and spotless other than a gold tinge that mobile 1 gives to the engine components. It was really clean so I'm going to refill with that. I would highly recomend you try this ATF trick for a while to see if it helps with your lifter. I could hear it was only on one side. If your oil pump goes out, it is not a tick. It's a loud rattle and you will show zero oil pressure or almost zero. That's how my first engine went. From what I know now, I would have just replaced, or resealed the pump. These engine last forever. Anyway anyone who reads this forum deserves and atta boy. Can you imagine the moolaa I would've shelled out at the repair station for a sticky lifter? I'm not even going to guess, but people who don't know about or pay attention to these forums give our automotive economy a big boost in the pocket every day. Ya'all take care and have a great weekend.

[idosubaru]

thanks for sharing. i and others often recommend ATF on here as well. i've put at least up to 2 quarts in before and run it for like a week or light duty driving. should'nt be necessary on the average engine that just starts to show issues though. more extreme cases require more extreme procedures.

 

lifter ticking can be so sporadic that it's hard to tell right away whether something is solved or not and sometimes ATF takes awhile longer to work, i've never seen it work that fast as you're indicating. so future readers of this should not despair if it doesn't go away immediately.

Edited June 5, 2010 by grossgary