In a bind

[Adamski]

I just bought a '98 Forester with 90K on it. After reading my last posts responses and feedback on the net, I'm concerned. Did I buy a money pit? It sound like these have some serious issues and I can't afford to have a vehicle down every couple months, not to mention the cost of getting the job done. I paid $2500 for it. Should I try and sell it for what I bought it for? I'm an Environmental Inspector and need to drive my vehicle to appt's on a daily bases. Any insight is appreciated.

[WoodsWagon]

The only problem with them is the headgaskets on the DOHC 2.5l. Oh, and the rear wheel bearings, but if you upgrade them to legacy bearings when you replace them it fixes the problem. The rest of the car is good quality.

 

Dumping the car because the headgaskets might blow at some point in the future is like refusing to drive a car on new tires because you might get a puncture at some point and you don't want to waste the money. Drive the car, make sure to change out the coolant every 30k, and don't worry about it. If it blows, it blows, you either replace the headgaskets or swap in a 2.2l.

[johnceggleston]

there's lots to read on this, look here for a good intro badheadgaskets.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=104353&highlight=pressure+test

 

i have a 97 outback with 132K miles., i have been driving it for 34k miles, and no problems. i bought for about what you paid and if i have to do the gaskets it will still be a good deal on a car. the purchase price plus HG repair (if/when i need it), drive it for 100k miles = ~ 4.9 cents per mile. a $25,000 new car would have to go 500,000 to get the same dollars per mile.

 

there is not much chance that your car has had the gaskets done already, foresters last longer, some say due to the lighter weight of the car but who knows. it could already be going or it could drive until 200k before it goes.

 

the good news is the problem usually develops slowly giving you time to schedule a repair. but if you drive 1000 miles a week 50 weeks a year, you need to take that into consideration. (if it does start to overheat do not drive it hot, let cool down and keep coolant in it. you do not want to cook the bearings.)

 

it seems your choices are sell it now,

drive it till it breaks and fix it or

fix it now and drive it.

of course you can always drive it till it breaks and then sell it for 500$.

 

by the way your timing belt is due now. the schedule calls for 105k miles or 105 months. that will ~ 600$.

Edited February 17, 2010 by johnceggleston

[idosubaru]

i would lean towards there being a good chance the headgaskets have already been done. if you can find someone to hook you up, they can look it up in the Subaru system and see if they've ever been replaced. still a chance they were done even if subaru doesn't have a record of it. quite a few of the EJ25's i've bought had the headgasket replaced already.

 

there are vent caps that cost a few dollars that are least a temporary fix and last quite awhile so you're not worried about getting stranded. by one and put it in the glove box just in case.

 

i'd be more concerned with timing belts. interference engine, if the belt breaks you'll have internal engine damage that's more costly than a head gasket job. at 10+ years old it needs replaced regardless of mileage and all the pulleys should be inspected too. again - chance it's already been done. we can help you "check" if you'd like to remove 3 10mm bolts and snap a picture of the belt - takes about 10 minutes.

 

not really a money pit - the timing belt and head gasket are the two big issues to consider - but lots of vehicles have timing belts or other significant maintenance items at higher mileage.

 

i'd verify the timing belt and change the transmission fluid or at least check it and then be prepared for some inexpensive high mileage.

[Rooster2]

For what it is worth, I know a guy, who used to work at a Subaru Dealership as a mechanic. He said he has replaced a ton of 2.5 phase 1 head gaskets. He said that he can look at the corners of a head gasket on a phase 1 motor, while it is still in the car, and tell if the HGs have been replaced. So, you may want to find a Subie mechanic, and ask him to look at your motor to see if your head gaskets have been replaced. I don't think a non Subaru mechanic will be able to advise you.

[hankosolder2]

The thing to consider is what I think statisticians refer to as "selection bias."

 

Obviously, more people on internet forums are there looking for solutions to problems than mentioning the non-news that their car is running trouble free, so it's not really an accurate representation of what you might expect to encounter with a particular model. It's easy to say "hey, there's 50 threads on head gaskets, this car must be some kind of dog" but when you consider that hundreds of thousands of these cars were sold, the percentages look better. I'm no fan of the EJ25, especially in phase I form, but there are tons of these cars on the road providing reliable transportation for their owners.

 

Having said that, there's also selection bias in the used car market- cars which need an expensive repair and which have non-obvious symptoms which may not reveal themselves in a short test drive are often unloaded by the unscrupulous, so when you buy a used Subaru with this engine you need to be extra vigilant.

 

Nathan

[GeneralDisorder]

If you like the Forester then by all means keep it - if the engine blows up you can install an EJ22.

 

How much of the work/maintenance are you going to be doing yourself? The head gaskets aren't a big deal if you can do them yourself - but it's $1000 to $1500 to have them done right at a shop if you can't.

 

The '98 was the only year Forester with the DOHC phase I engine. The '99 and up have the phase II SOHC engine - much better IMO as they don't overheat unless run low on coolant - the leaks in the HG's on them are external. The phase I's also seem to have a lot of issues with piston slap (annoying, but not fatal) and quite a few people have had a rod failure - probably from being overheated due to neglected HG failure.

 

The rear wheel bearings have issues - replace them with Legacy rear bearings to end the failures.

 

GD

[Adamski]

Thanks guys. I'll get it to the dealership and get it looked over.

[WoodsWagon]

If you're not hearing growling from the rear of the car, the wheel bearings are probably fine. If the temperature gauge is staying stable with the car under load, like a long hill, then I wouldn't worry about it. Have the coolant changed out the next time you have the oil changed. Keep an eye on the level and check for black oily residue in the overflow tank.

 

Don't run to the dealership just because you read some things online about potential problems. I mean they'll take your money no problem, but if it aint broke, don't fix it.

[mark_henderson1]

there's lots to read on this, look here for a good intro.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=104353&highlight=pressure+test

 

i have a 97 outback with 132K miles., i have been driving it for 34k miles, and no problems. i bought for about what you paid and if i have to do the gaskets it will still be a good deal on a car. the purchase price plus HG repair (if/when i need it), drive it for 100k miles = ~ 4.9 cents per mile. a $25,000 new car would have to go 500,000 to get the same dollars per mile.

 

there is not much chance that your car has had the gaskets done already, foresters last longer, some say due to the lighter weight of the car but who knows. it could already be going or it could drive until 200k before it goes.

 

the good news is the problem usually develops slowly giving you time to schedule a repair. but if you drive 1000 miles a week 50 weeks a year, you need to take that into consideration. (if it does start to overheat do not drive it hot, let cool down and keep coolant in it. you do not want to cook the bearings.)

 

it seems your choices are sell it now,

drive it till it breaks and fix it or

fix it now and drive it.

of course you can always drive it till it breaks and then sell it for 500$.

 

by the way your timing belt is due now. the schedule calls for 105k miles or 105 months. that will ~ 600$.

 

nice thanks for the link.. i need to review this one..

[Adamski]

Being that I don't know the history of the car, I'm going to take it in and get the coolant flushed and oil changed just to be safe. While it's there I'll ask if they can give it the once over.

[johnceggleston]

Being that I don't know the history of the car, I'm going to take it in and get the coolant flushed and oil changed just to be safe. While it's there I'll ask if they can give it the once over.

 

look for dark gunk in the coolant over flow before you drop it off or ask them to do it. it may not be as noticeable after the coolant has been replaced.

[Adamski]

I looked in the reservoir this morning. I don't see and black gunk, but the collant in there is black, which I'm sure just because it hasn't been changed in a looooong time.....I hope.

[MilesFox]

to the comment about seeing the corners of the had gaskets...

The original gasket has 3 layers, and the updated gasket has 4 layers. at least this is what i saw when doing 2.5 head gaskets.

 

I was able to do the job for 250 bucks in parts, and another 225 for the timing belts. this included every seal except for the rear main and front crank. You shouldnt have to pay more than 1000 bucks for an honest mechanic to do the work if he doesnt rack you up on unnecessary labor.

 

I just repaired a head gasket for 1025 bucks total, this included all the parts, and me driving 80 miles to yank the motor and bring it to my garage, and take it back to install