kybishop Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I have an 86 GL wagon, 150,000 miles and running strong. Is it typical in cold weather for the gear box to slow the engine when letting up the clutch in neutral when cold? May be due to the thick tranny oil? Also, it is real hard to get in first gear while moving/rolling or down shifting when cold. Impossible sometimes, don't want to force it. Second gear can be a bit difficult while cold. I need to check the levels again. May need new fluid or rebuild. My 98 Jetta TDI does not slow the engine at all while letting up the clutch in neutral but it uses a lot lighter weight oil in the gear box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 maybe you need a clutch adjustment? is it hard to get reverse gear too? i bet if yo shut the car off, it will go right into gear. there may be some drag on the clutch when pedal is engaged. you may have to tighten the clutch cable a few turns. if you find the cable is already tight, or too tight, the pressure plate may just be worn out(premature failure from overadjustment of the cable) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I have an 86 GL wagon, 150,000 miles and running strong. Is it typical in cold weather for the gear box to slow the engine when letting up the clutch in neutral when cold? May be due to the thick tranny oil? Also, it is real hard to get in first gear while moving/rolling or down shifting when cold. Impossible sometimes, don't want to force it. Second gear can be a bit difficult while cold. I need to check the levels again. May need new fluid or rebuild. My 98 Jetta TDI does not slow the engine at all while letting up the clutch in neutral but it uses a lot lighter weight oil in the gear box. What weight gear oil are you using? I have found from trial that the lighter the weight the easier the shifting. Im using 75w90 right now. I think the book calls for 85w90 or more. If you are running heavy weight gear oil try some thinner stuff. It wont hurt it any and your shifts will probably smooth out a bit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Im accustomed to a small RPM drop (like 20 RPM or something, just enough to change the sound of the engine) when I let the clutch out in neutral when the engine is warming up, so I dont think you have an issue there. As for not shifting into first while rolling, its not supposed to. These trannies have a 1st gear lockout IIRC, so it is near impossible to shift into first uless it is stopped, so dont try it. With these old cars, the synchros usually have seen some abuse, and with the thick gear oil they use, cold morning shifts usually will be not as easy or smooth as after the tranny warms up, just dont force anything too hard and all will be fine. If it starts hard shifting or grinding after the tranny oil is warm, then you might need to replace the synchros or adjust the clutch cable. -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Yup, it's normal. Lots of cars with manual transaxles that have transversely mounted engines like most FWD's run automatic transmssion fluid, which is really thin. They can do that because the ring and pinion gears on the differential are helical gears. Subaru transaxles have to have hypoid gears on the differntial, and they need hypoid gear oil or they would burn up pretty quick. So you have to use 80/90 gear oil and the like. The gear oil is really thick and sticky on cold mornings, so it will try to transfer power. My pickup truck will actually creep forward on flat ground if I don't have the e-brake on if it's cold. Most manufacturers have switched to ATF style fluids so that people don't have hard shiftin on cold mornings. Unfortunately due to the design of subaru transmissions, they can't. Unless they separate the front diff out of the transmission case like they did in the automatic transmission subarus, they have to run hypoid gear oil in the whole transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 on my '86 4wdr...GM or Penzoil "syncromesh oil" ..similar to VW's 80w gear oil.. running this oil for a few yrs now ..shifts better in 2010 then when it first came from the factory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 With these old cars, the synchros usually have seen some abuse, and with the thick gear oil they use, cold morning shifts usually will be not as easy or smooth as after the tranny warms up, just dont force anything too hard and all will be fine. If it starts hard shifting or grinding after the tranny oil is warm, then you might need to replace the synchros or adjust the clutch cable. -Bill To add to this...if the trans is cold and hard to shift...double clutch it..that is... when going from first to 2nd let the clutch out in neutral and then push it back in and pull it into 2nd. You are effectively not using the syncros when doing this. I have gotten into the habbit of doing that in the winter when its very cold out as these transmissions had a habbit of crunching gears in 2nd and 3rd when cold even when new (i have the test drive article to prove it!). When the car is up to temp though you can shift like normal. I figure if its a bit harder on the clutch pushing it in twice as much so be it. Clutches are easier to get than new transmissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kybishop Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Hey, thanks guys. All great information and sounds like I'm running pretty typical. I had a 1966 4x4 Dodge Powerwagon crew cab that was similar in difficulty in getting in gear. I wanted to make sure this 86 Sub was not supposed to be easier than it is and I did not want to cause some headache down the road. Just have to start from second sometimes if being slowed to a craw but not a stop in traffic. Shifts pretty easy otherwise. The hill lock still works on this thing and I love that. Thanks again all. I will check my clutch adjustment but it sounds like it is working as expected. KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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