Rear Main repair sleeve?

[Gloyale]

Hey......does anyone know of a parts supplier that carries a repair sleeve for the rear main of an EJ engine?

 

Backstory:

 

Pulled the motor to replace HGs. Clutch had recently been done, but no flywheel resurface. Customer hates clutch chatter so I remove the flywheel to have it machined.

 

While there, I notice the rear main is wet with oil.....and punched in unevenly and crooked. Talk to customer.....oh yeah same guy that did the clutch did the rear main.........very poorly. Customer had though the burning oil was from the external HG leak (which it also was leaking)

 

So I replace the seal. drove it in very nice and square with a proper size piece of ABS pipe. Assemble the rest and install in the car.

 

3 days later customer calls and say's "it's leaking at the rear main"

 

So sure enough....it is......so I pull the engine again:mad: And for sure the rear main is soaked (not the seprator....sealed that too and no leaks)

 

Inspection shows my seal install was perfcect.....no distortion....all even....why is it leaking?

 

I pull the seal out and run my fingers over the smooth area on the crank that the seal rides on. I first notice 6 dings in the outer edge....The guy tried to use a socket just a hair too small as a seal driver....great. Well those aren't on the sealing surface so okay........but then..........I find one largve spot on the sealing surfce that is just gouged to hell and jagged:eek: I tested my own seal puller against the area of the crank around the bolt holes. There is no way my mild steel seal puller made that HUGE gouge in the hardened crank steel. My seal puller barely could scratch it. I used way more pressure than I ever did removing the seal, and I could hardly make a mark....lety alone a gouge. This HAD to have been done by the guy who did the clutch.

 

So now I need a repair sleeve that can slip over the crank to make a new sealing surface. I've found then available for the Camshafts:rolleyes:but not for the crank:mad:

 

If I can't find it.....I am going to first take a bunch of pictures, then dress it with a file.....tell the customer it may leak.....and that if he wants to go after the shop that did the clutch for the cost of replaceing a Crankshaft.....I will back him up. But I am not gonna do this again if it leaks.

 

Anyone know where to get a sleeve?

Edited February 18, 2010 by Gloyale

[ericem]

Possibly make it smooth, and then use JB weld and fill in the gouge.

[naru]

That is a painful story.

 

Have you condidered Speedi-sleeves?

http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/chicago-rawhide/speedi-sleeve-catalog/11940-66677.html

 

Local jobber normally has them,but,you need to know the exact size.

[Quidam]

Hey,

 

For EA I've used Timkin and Federal Mogul. RockAuto on the last one I bought.

 

Doug

[GeneralDisorder]

Speedi-Sleeves can be had in any size you like. Just find a dealer and place your order.

 

GD

[idosubaru]

You guys are actually using these things? I never thought anyone was actually using them, never seen them mentioned before. I've always wondered who and for what these things are being used for since I've never needed one. I see them listed on Rockauto all the time.

 

Is there any chance of installing the seal deep enough that it's not in contact with the gouged portion but not blocking anything?

 

JB weld would not be a good fit for this application. I would bet a chunk of change Gloyale wouldn't even consider it.

[Gloyale]

You guys are actually using these things? I never thought anyone was actually using them, never seen them mentioned before. I've always wondered who and for what these things are being used for since I've never needed one. I see them listed on Rockauto all the time.

 

Is there any chance of installing the seal deep enough that it's not in contact with the gouged portion but not blocking anything?

 

JB weld would not be a good fit for this application. I would bet a chunk of change Gloyale wouldn't even consider it.

 

Speedi-Sleeve......okay.....I knew there was a brand name.

 

I haven't been able to find a listing for this application though. I'll try harder today.

 

As far as driving the seal a bit deeper......that is probably what I'll try if I can't find a sleeve.

 

JB weld is a no go here. the customer builds "better than restored" datsun roadsters, and puts modern 240 SX drivetrains in them. He wouldn't go for that and frankly I don't think it would work either.

 

So I guess I need to go take a precise measurment of the rear main and find a direct speedi sleeve dealer.

[MilesFox]

i had this problem on the crank snout of an ea82 sedan. I had replaced a seal that failed a week later. when i removed it, there was a gouge and a burr on the crank snout. I used a file to knock it down, and drove the seal about 1mm further in to miss the roughest part of the gouge. this held up from there.

 

there was another time i did a seal, cant remember what it was, but the seal was so hard and dry that it made a groove in the shaft, and when i replaced the seal, i had to seat it past this little groove.

 

you could get away with a file and seating the seal just right if you dont have to drive it in all the way and bottom it out. let the customer know both options(sleeve), and chose the one they would rather pay for, and what to expect from there.

[naru]

Looks like 85.0 mm,but better measure.

 

Make sure you have any burrs removed before installation.

[GeneralDisorder]

Speedi-Sleeve's are not typically sold by application (though some are) they are a generic seal surface repair and are availible in any size you could want. You just have to get out the Mic. and find out what size you need. They are sold through industrial supply and bearing/seal houses - check with McGuire, Applied Industrial, etc.

 

JB weld would not be the product to use, but there is a product called DevCon that could be used to repair it - but the process would be to remove the crank, fill the area and turn it on a lathe. You might get by for a short time with filling the area and then fileing and sanding it smooth but I don't think I would try it unless it were my personal vehicle. Not a professional repair.

 

Of course if you were going to remove the crank then you would just have it spray welded and ground.

 

GD

Edited February 18, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[Gloyale]

Sleeve ordered

 

I'll try to take pics of the install.

[Quidam]

"You just have to get out the Mic."

 

Me, I just do a quick Search and find out all the sizes I may need. I cross over a couple of MFG. as it's there for the looking. Gives me confidence it what I'm ordering.

 

Doug:)

[naru]

Instructions

http://www.vsm.skf.com/~/media/Files/enUS/HeavyDuty/TechTip/TT08_021.ashx

[Gloyale]

Fixed....

 

Pics.....

 

[idosubaru]

Woah crack that's awesome. So the sleeve goes around the crank. What seals bewteen the sleeve and the crank? Thanks for the pic's, that's awesome.

[Gloyale]

Woah crack that's awesome. So the sleeve goes around the crank. What seals bewteen the sleeve and the crank? Thanks for the pic's, that's awesome.

 

An OEM rear main seal. Sorry Shoul've taken apicture of the seal installed.

 

But basically the crank is restored to original +.004" larger than stock, but that's still within the tolerance of the seal

 

BTW.....the tool I used to install both the sleeve, and the new rear main is a ABS(black) pipe end cap. 3" pipe size diameter. But actually it needs to be a cap or other fitting that 3" slips inside. Just the perfect size for squarely driving the seal. PVC would work, but is more brittle and likely to crack from whackin on it.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Gloyale

[idosubaru]

oh nice hit, so the ID of the seal has some built in tolerance to it.

 

But since the crank is scored and the seal no longer touches the crank - what seals between the sleeve and the crank? Or am I seeing it wrong? It's just metal on metal right? Is it just because the sleeve is long and covers up the imperfections? That's a much simpler process than I thought it was. Makes me less worried about future seal pulling zzz:lol:

[Gloyale]

oh nice hit, so the ID of the seal has some built in tolerance to it.

 

But since the crank is scored and the seal no longer touches the crank - what seals between the sleeve and the crank? Or am I seeing it wrong? It's just metal on metal right? Is it just because the sleeve is long and covers up the imperfections? That's a much simpler process than I thought it was. Makes me less worried about future seal pulling zzz:lol:

 

In this case, the gouge was not so bad, I used green loctite in a thin film before pressing on the sleeve.

 

If the damage is deep, they recommend using some type of metal filler before slipping on the sleeve.

 

Either way, the sleeve fits on SOOOO tight, that there really isn't a chance of oil slipping between it and the crank.