96 Impreza OB EJ22 No Fuel Cylinder 2 & 4

[jarz21]

I have a '96 Impreza Outback with 2.2L. The car has around 82k miles and the timing belt, all filters (including fuel), spark plugs, engine oil seals, battery, etc. were all replaced perhaps 3,000 miles ago. The car has run great ever since I performed all of the initial services. Two days ago, I was driving back home in some very wet, slushy snow when I suddenly realized that the car started running like it was fuel starved. At idle, it felt like it was only running on two cylinders and wanted to sputter and die (and actually did stall a couple of times while I tried to limp the one mile home). I had a chance to do a little more checking today, and I've verified that I have good spark on all four cylinders, but the spark plugs in cylinders 2 and 4 are both bone dry and white as if they were brand new, while the plugs in 1 and 3 are clearly getting fuel. I'm guessing that the problem is injector related, but it seems very coincidental that both of the injectors on the driver's side stopped delivering fuel at the same time.

 

So, is there some common electrical connection that ties cylinders 2 and 4 together that may have somehow been affected by the slushy snow, or is it more likely that both of the injectors failed simultaneously? My next thought was to pull the injectors to clean them, but I ran out of daylight.

Edited March 11, 2010 by jarz21

[naru]

2 ands 4 share a yellow(?) power lead.

Make sure you have power at the inj.

Check the engine harness connectors.

[jarz21]

2 ands 4 share a yellow(?) power lead.

Make sure you have power at the inj.

Check the engine harness connectors.

 

I checked the power to both of the yellow wires as suggested. It appears that both 2 & 4 injectors are getting over 12v when the engine is running. I also did a resistance test on all of the injectors, both running and non-running cylinders, and am seeing 10.9 ohms on all of them. This seems to point the needle back in the "fuel issue" direction. I still find it odd that the two went out simultaneously, but I suppose they'd be the first injectors susceptible to junk in the fuel since they are closest to the fuel source.

[naru]

Clogging of only those 2 seems unlikely.

 

Put a test light on the other injector lead to verify ECU is firing the injectors(should flash).

['84 Flat-Four]

According to the FSM when 2 & 4 misfire, is one of, or multiple of the following three:

 

Spark plugs

Fuel injectors

Skipping timing belt teeth

 

If the results of your injector power research prove inconclusive, I would check out your timing belt. Hope this helps.

[jarz21]

Clogging of only those 2 seems unlikely.

 

Put a test light on the other injector lead to verify ECU is firing the injectors(should flash).

 

Using the test light, I was able to confirm that both fuel injector wires on cylinders 1 & 3 have power with the key in the on position, while only the yellow wires have power to the two problem cylinders. So, there is a faulty connection somewhere between the injectors and ECU...

[naru]

Using the test light, I was able to confirm that both fuel injector wires on cylinders 1 & 3 have power with the key in the on position, while only the yellow wires have power to the two problem cylinders. So, there is a faulty connection somewhere between the injectors and ECU...

 

Just to be clear,all the wires should have power w/injectors connected.

ECU fires the injector by connecting the non yellow wire to ground.

 

If you have power on yellow,but not the other wire w/inj. connected,inj is open or connection is bad.

[jarz21]

You're right; all wires DO have power when the connectors are attached to the injectors and the key is in the on position. I had been testing for power with the connector detached from the bad injectors but attached to the good injectors. Thanks for the clarification. I have confirmed that all 8 wires (power & ecu wires for each cylinder) have power. Now my CEL is on, so I'm going to ride my motorcycle to Autozone to borrow their OBDII scanner. Burrrr!

[naru]

Make sure the test light flashes when connected to the non-yellow wire while cranking(everything connected).

 

Timing belt skip seems possible.Compression test?

[jarz21]

Make sure the test light flashes when connected to the non-yellow wire while cranking(everything connected).

 

Because it's happening so fast, it appears to be more like a faint flicker in the est light without the test light actually going out than a flash.

 

Timing belt skip seems possible.Compression test?

 

Given the amount of wet, slippery snow that was shooting off the road and the location of the timing belt, I guess this doesn't seem so unrealistic. I'll have to pull the plugs again and check compression.

[jarz21]

Well, after 5 days out of town for work and then several more days of rain, I finally got a chance to look into the problem more. So convinced that my timing belt was the problem, I decided to pull the radiator and timing belt covers to check. I had performed a compression test, but I was getting such low numbers that I thought I was doing something wrong. As it turns out, my timing belt appears to be completely lined up as it should be. I then performed the compression check again, with the following (average) results:

 

Cyl 1 - 200 psi

Cyl 3 - 210 psi

Cyl 2 - 65 psi

Cyl 4 - 100 psi

 

$#!+ I could even hear as I was cranking the starter motor that the driver's side cylinders were putting up less resistance, while the passenger side cylinders had a more pronounced compression stroke.

 

So, does this mean now that I'm looking at a blown head gasket on the driver side? I'm not seeing or smelling any cooling in my oil when I pull the dipstick. Otherwise, would this mean bent valves? My car was manufactured in Japan in March of '96 according to the plate by the driver side door. I was under the impression that these were still non-interference engines by that point. Now as I search the forum more, I'm trying to identify the difference between single and dual port models. If it helps, here is a picture of my passenger side exhaust port/ header, as well as a shot of my spark plugs for the heck of it:

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2692/4396032064_91ab0b5f52_o.jpg

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2804/4396032044_032548a0c2_o.jpg

 

I'm going to admit right now that, when I first replaced my timing belt in November of last year, I had accidentally lined the crank sprocket to the arrow instead of the notch. After cranking for a while and not getting it to run (but not hearing any major clanks or cracks), I pulled it all apart, re-aligned to the notch, and the car had been running flawlessly ever since. If any damage had been done to the valves, it would have been done then, but how could the car run so well with with bent valves for nearly 3 months then suddenly crap out on me?!?

Edited February 28, 2010 by jarz21

[Gloyale]

96 2.2 is a non interference motor.

 

 

 

You are kinda all over the map with possible symtoms and diagnosis.

 

scale it back to the original problem.

 

 

No fuel to drivers side bank. You have power to the injector, but the signal ground from ECU isn't happening.

 

 

SO........ What is common to both of those injectors? The part of the board that switches both of those injectors ground though the same pin of the ECU. that ground should be supplied by the main harness ground to the manifold......but you may want to test the pin at the ECU as well for continuity, If you can find a proper pinout for that year.

 

If ground is present there, but the injectors are not firing you may just have a bad ECU.

 

 

EDIT* Just had a look at the ECU chart.

 

the ground pins for injector circuit are pins 69 and 95. Check that both of those pins at the ECU have continuity to ground. If one of those is ungrounded, that is the problem. My gut says pin 69 is the ground for 2 and 4 injector circiut. Since pin 70 right next to it is the signal wire out to the injector # 2. injector #4 signal out pin is #16

Edited February 28, 2010 by Gloyale

[naru]

96 2.2 is a non interference motor.

 

 

 

You are kinda all over the map with possible symtoms and diagnosis.

 

scale it back to the original problem.

 

 

No fuel to drivers side bank. You have power to the injector, but the signal ground from ECU isn't happening.

 

 

SO........ What is common to both of those injectors? The part of the board that switches both of those injectors ground though the same pin of the ECU. that ground should be supplied by the main harness ground to the manifold......but you may want to test the pin at the ECU as well for continuity, If you can find a proper pinout for that year.

 

If ground is present there, but the injectors are not firing you may just have a bad ECU.

 

 

EDIT* Just had a look at the ECU chart.

 

the ground pins for injector circuit are pins 69 and 95. Check that both of those pins at the ECU have continuity to ground. If one of those is ungrounded, that is the problem. My gut says pin 69 is the ground for 2 and 4 injector circiut. Since pin 70 right next to it is the signal wire out to the injector # 2. injector #4 signal out pin is #16

 

Test light flickers for all cyl.-see post #10.

 

Injector problems have no bearing on compression.

[Gloyale]

Test light flickers for all cyl.-see post #10.

 

 

 

He state he only see's a flicker.......and he doesn't confirm it on all injectors. Just says he's having a hard time seeing a pulse.

 

 

Also.......If drivers side cam was off far enough for those low compression #s.....then it would run like poop but would not ONLY inject for 2 cylinders. I don't think it could run at all like that actually.

 

Plus he's said the timing appears correct.

[jarz21]

Hey guys, I do appreciate both of your responses and ideas. I'm the one who should be getting upset here; not the people trying to help! The flicker that I was seeing was for all of the injectors. Perhaps that was a test that would be better performed in low-light situations, but I'm not working in a garage, so Boston + sundown = cooold. I did confirm that the timing belt marks are exactly where I had put them back in November, so that's why I was trying to attribute the issue to either head gasket or bent valves (again, why I was trying to confirm whether I have an interference engine or not). I'll check the ECU quickly just to see. It's just hard to think that my apparent no-fuel problem is related to the low compression I'm seeing in the driver side cylinders. Had it been an issue of fuel washing the oil away, I could almost see it, but that seems unlikely here.

[jarz21]

96 2.2 is a non interference motor.

the ground pins for injector circuit are pins 69 and 95. Check that both of those pins at the ECU have continuity to ground. If one of those is ungrounded, that is the problem. My gut says pin 69 is the ground for 2 and 4 injector circiut. Since pin 70 right next to it is the signal wire out to the injector # 2. injector #4 signal out pin is #16

 

I can't seem to find a pin-out diagram specifically for my '96, but I did find this one for a '97: Diagram and Pin function. According to those, I believe I am checking the correct pins on my car, but I can't seem to get a ground on either of them. Are these the correct pins? I've tried checking continuity both with and without the battery connected and key off and on and am getting nothing. The car was at least running on 2 cylinders, so I'm not sure I'm performing the test correctly.

[hankosolder2]

I think the "fuelling" issue is a blind alley. Let's put it this way- the compression issue is a bigger problem and there's no way any electrical issues are going to cause low compression.

 

Is it possible that the cam sprocket came disengaged from the camshaft? I think there's an indexing pin... if you had a partial cam bearing siezure or something, I wonder if it could have sheared the pin and whacked out the cam timing on that side.

 

Your engine (from the pictures) is a single port one, so it's possible it is interference. I think the change to an interference engine went with the change to solid (manual) lash adjusters. You could pull a valve cover off and see if you have screw adjusters on the end of your rocker arms or not.

 

 

Nathan

[Gloyale]

I can't seem to find a pin-out diagram specifically for my '96, but I did find this one for a '97: Diagram and Pin function. According to those, I believe I am checking the correct pins on my car, but I can't seem to get a ground on either of them. Are these the correct pins? I've tried checking continuity both with and without the battery connected and key off and on and am getting nothing. The car was at least running on 2 cylinders, so I'm not sure I'm performing the test correctly.

 

Look, the title of the thread is NO FUEL. So, until that is toatlly ruled out.....I am still making that the focus of my train of though for this thread.

 

This diagrahm is correct. There should definately be ground on both pins 69 and 95. Definately check the harness ground at the engine, as well. If you can't find continuity to ground (Zero ohms) on those pins.....it certainly could be causing problems.

 

 

 

But the compression is troubling. Are you double sure they are good tests you've done? Also, I'm 99% sure this is a non-interference motor which means if the timing belt is spot on then it should have compression.

 

You said that you drove through alot of wet slush. How wet? Enough to have sucked some water and popped the headgasket? Not enough to fully hydrolock it, but perhaps enough to bump the compression past what the headgasket can handle for a few strokes?

[naru]

I think the head gasket leaking compression between 2&4 is the most likely scenario.

 

Could confirm by putting compressed air into #2 at TDC of compression stroke and listening for escaping air at #4.Listen at the exhaust,intake and oil filler while your at it.

 

IMO, the head needs to come off.

[eppoh]

I have to agree with Naru on this. If the head gasket is leaking between cylinders- it is easy enough to check.

 

Any source of air pressure that is quiet. Pull the spark plugs out of 2 and 4. Put either one at TDC and hook up the air to that cylinder. You will have to hold the engine from turning over from air pressure. If applying only 80 PSI in the lower cylinder, you might be able to hold it with a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt.

 

With air pressure in the low cylinder, stick a mechanics stethoscope into the plug hole of the other cylinder and listen for a hiss.

 

It is possible to have a leak between adjacent cylinders without swapping oil and coolant.

 

This just happened last week to my neighbors chevy. Pulled the head and sure enough, the gasket was leaking between cyl 3 and 5. His compression readings were similar to yours.

[johnceggleston]

It is possible to have a leak between adjacent cylinders

 

of course this is possible, and given the symptoms maybe even likely, but i have never read about it here, and more often than not, compression problems like mentioned above, especially when they are on the same cam, are timing belt related.

 

bent valves?

[Gloyale]

of course this is possible, and given the symptoms maybe even likely, but i have never read about it here, and more often than not, compression problems like mentioned above, especially when they are on the same cam, are timing belt related.

 

bent valves?

 

He's checked the timing. And again this should be a Non-Interference motor.

 

How would timing be off then?

 

 

Someone did suggest checking the pin that locates the cam sprocket.

 

Jarz21, have you inspected to make sure the driver side cam pulley hasn't worked loose and spun?

 

 

 

Still I keep thinking if the DRIVERS side cam is off, then all the functions dependant on the CAM sensor would be whacked out, and I doubt the car would run. The ECU would have to be "deciding" which signal to listen too, Crank or Cam.....

[eppoh]

If that pin were sheared, the cam would not turn, but the pulley would just spin with the belt.

I think it would be noisy too.

[jarz21]

The funny thing is, right before reading these updates about possible leaking between cylinders, my brother called me to say he had spoken with a friend who had suggested the same thing about my car. I guess I never realized that the cylinders could leak to one another without any external signs, but that certainly makes the most sense in this scenario. It's a bit reassuring that 3 different people came to the same conclusion at the same time!

 

To answer Gloyale, I could not identify any indication of a sheared pin on the cam. Nor were there any additional noises. I think that the simple answer (that an engine in a make of car that has been known to have head gasket issues may have a head gasket leak) may be the right answer here. Either way, I'm reaching the limits of what I can physically do to fix the problem myself given my limited resources after moving to a new state, so I think I'm now at the point where I have to take the car to a nearby reputable shop and have them take a look. I appreciate all the suggestions and input, and it will definitely help when explaining the problem to the mechanic.

 

Kevin

 

P.S. It really does kill me having a mechanical problem that I can't fix myself, but some situations can't be helped. I haven't taken a car to a shop for anything more than an inspection in probably 8 years!

Edited March 1, 2010 by jarz21

[hankosolder2]

Do let us know what your mechanic finds!