Petersubaru Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 .. http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-repair-seattle-timing-belt-idlers-explained/ ..enjoy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Ah ha! I had read posts of people saying that the "old style" tensioner (96-99 DOHC type) was better to use because the new ones (2000+ SOHC) don't last as long. This video explains that it's the bracket that is the culprit and not the tensioner. Thanks for posting!! Will- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) The bracket is not the whole reason for those new tensioner failure's - they aren't as good as the older style with respect to leaking and are very finicky about how much load they will take when being compressed for re-installation - almost to the point that no one wants to risk compressing them incorrectly so reccomend replacement as a general rule. It's also important to note that you can swap the bracket BACK to the older style with the seperate piston/idler components and use them instead (which - if you are following along closely here, is EXACTLY the equivelent of what Subaru is telling folks to do with the superceeded bracket "go buy this superceeded bracket as well as the new tensioner/idler combo, etc." I respectfully submit that if I were doing such a thing I would just order a setup for an earlier 2.2 EJ [or - more likely get a used bracket and buy new tensioner/idler] and never have to consider replacment for the further life of the engine - probably saving money in the process). They are simple to compress, very reliable, and typically last the life of the engine and then some. GD Edited March 2, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) thanks GD for pointing that out concerning the "bracket"..that changes for the better can be made..as mentioned in the video, the bracket was updated in 2000 and I think now also "back speced" http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b12/type_21/engine/camshaft_and_timing_belt/illustration_2/ Edited March 2, 2010 by Petersubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 It's also important to note that you can swap the bracket BACK to the older style with the seperate piston/idler components and use them instead (which - if you are following along closely here, is EXACTLY the equivelent of what Subaru is telling folks to do with the superceeded bracket "go buy this superceeded bracket as well as the new tensioner/idler combo, etc." Ah I see. So they were talking about the piston style tensioner and bracket. I heard him say the tensioner was superseded but he didn't say with what. I respectfully submit that if I were doing such a thing I would just order a setup for an earlier 2.2 EJ [or - more likely get a used bracket and buy new tensioner/idler] and never have to consider replacment for the further life of the engine - probably saving money in the process). They are simple to compress, very reliable, and typically last the life of the engine and then some. GD So then the only difference between an earlier EJ timing kit and a 2000+ SOHC 2.5 kit is the tensioner/idler and presumably the belt since they are a 60k and 100k interval respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 So then the only difference between an earlier EJ timing kit and a 2000+ SOHC 2.5 kit is the tensioner/idler and presumably the belt since they are a 60k and 100k interval respectively. As far as I know, that's correct. Subaru doesn't actually sell a "kit" but all the parts are the same as a CA spec (105k belt) EJ22 with the exception of the tensioner assembly and it's associated idler. All you need to do to run the older style tensioner is change the bracket. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Ah I see. So they were talking about the piston style tensioner and bracket. I heard him say the tensioner was superseded but he didn't say with what. They just updated the bracket - they are still using that stupid new style tensioner. It's more expensive and has to be replaced basically every 105k or you risk leakage or improper compressing durring assembly, etc. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 .. http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-repair-seattle-timing-belt-idlers-explained/ ..enjoy.. are these the same guys that say battery discharge is a factor in EJ25 head gasket failures? i think it is. we've been saying for quite some time that the old style tensioner is much more reliable than the new. i can't believe how many new style tensioners i've had to replace, up to 2003. i've never replaced an old style tensioner yet eventhough those on average should be seeing higher miles and older age. not sure how much the bracket really matters here, just run the old style tensioner if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 we have legos, and can make the best of whatever we want, using older parts in newer cars, and using newer parts in older cars, etc. Long live the legos. Too bad the Subaru engineering crowd doesn't frequent the forums more often,so they can see how badly they are doing on reliability these days, and how longevity that used to be, is not how they have turned. At least the sales numbers are up, and that is all that matters in hard times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 i don't know why they changed the tensioner but there is a reason. maybe something as simple as distance of travel, or higher compression resistance, who knows. but it is not surprising to me that it has to be replaced at 105k, everything else has to be. and i'm not at all confident that just because an idler spins ok at 105k that it will continue to do so for another 105k. the only way to be sure is to replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) i don't know why they changed the tensioner but there is a reason. maybe something as simple as distance of travel, or higher compression resistance, who knows. but it is not surprising to me that it has to be replaced at 105k, everything else has to be. and i'm not at all confident that just because an idler spins ok at 105k that it will continue to do so for another 105k. the only way to be sure is to replace them. ..I am sure there are many theories as to the above "why"..I have talked with several subi mechanics at different locations and the common understanding is:..1/since the tensioner according too subaru remains as a "judgement "call (if it is not leaking, leave it), the last thing the dealer wants to do is replace something that is still functioning perfectly and then trying to explain this to the customer..( this would not add any credibility to an already "shady" business)..2/subaru Does recommend for that tensioner to be inspected sometime during its life..3/ do you really think that the car is going to go another 105k without a newer headgasket especially since most subis on the road have not had a HG replacement coming up to there first timing belt exchange..in other words a new HG plus a load of other timing belt running parts will be coming in the future..just not yet.. Edited March 3, 2010 by Petersubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 but it is not surprising to me that it has to be replaced at 105k, everything else has to be. and i'm not at all confident that just because an idler spins ok at 105k that it will continue to do so for another 105k. the only way to be sure is to replace them. I agree. Besides, that "quiet" idler was that much quieter then the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote So then the only difference between an earlier EJ timing kit and a 2000+ SOHC 2.5 kit is the tensioner/idler and presumably the belt since they are a 60k and 100k interval respectively..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................I could be wrong here, but I think it is not that easy to simply assume..for example my '01 OB (same for 2000-2009) takes the Gates T307 T/belt, ..this particular belt has a different "tooth" profile when comparing to the 3 different belts used for the 2.2L motor (T304/T254/T172) .. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=109628 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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