So has anybody ever made a non EGR motor have an EGR?

[Gsir08]

Well I figured I might ask if anyone has ever done this but I'm most likely going to be the first. So I might as well describe my whole situation from the beginning. I had a 96 manual OBW that was a 2.2 with no EGR, and I loved that car and motor it was great and ran mint with 230,xxx miles on it. Then someone rear ended it and I really wanted another one that was 5 speed and 2.2 would be great but I had a good 2.2 right in my driveway and a good 5 speed sitting in my totalled car. And this is my daily driver so there it needs to be running at all times pretty much. So luckily right after the accident I found a 97 OBW limited, so it had a 2.5 and auto trans. Fully loaded though with nice heated leather seats . So I figured let me do this one up nice I'll freshen up my 2.2 and install that with the 5 speed into the 97. So I got all of that work done, really was pretty straightforward swap. I ran my 96 ECU and had no codes coming up, but it will not pass emissions, because all of the 1996 ECU have something specail and wont pass in any other year except a 1996. So I have to pass emissions with my 97 ECU, but that is looking for EGR so it throws a code with my non egr 2.2. So now I have my mint freshened up 2.2 that I would love to have in my car cause I love the 2.2, but it wont pass emissions in that car. So I could either get a 97 or later ECU for a non EGR EJ, or I could install EGR on this 2.2. And after looking into it, it isnt bad at all. The main difference is going to be the drivers side cylinder head isnt tapped for the EGR pipe. But the difference is it just isnt drilled all the way through to the exhaust port or tapped. So I tried on a spare head I have to drill and tap that hole and I got the EGR pipe to fit. So all I will really need to do is drill and tap my head on my 2.2, and find a 2.2 EGR intake manifold to bolt on. I have alot of 2.5 EGR parts that I'm pretty sure will fit on a 2.2 intake, like the actual valve and all the lines. I can then run my 97 ECU and it wont throw a code for no EGR valve.

[idosubaru]

Yep, that's what I would do if ignoring it wasn't an option. That's the solution I've mentioned in other threads, I think to you as well. No one has tried it yet but it's very simple. I've drilled and tapped blocks before for other various similar items. It's very simple, aluminum is easy to work with.

 

Pretty sure yours is out of the car now, but with a right angle drill it would be doable in the car.

 

Yes your EJ25 EGR stuff should work with the EJ22, the valves, pipes, and solenoid are all the same I'm pretty sure.

 

What a crack you have to go through all of that just because of that emissions year conundrum. You deserve a medal for hanging in there and staying sane with that mess!

Edited March 3, 2010 by grossgary

[WoodsWagon]

Wholy wall o' text! Paragraphs help with reading alot.

 

So you drilled a spare head and the hole went into the exhaust port without hitting a coolant passage? What year engine was the spare head off of?

[Gsir08]

the spare head was a 97, and I wouldn't really be doing all of this if i was insisting on making everything that i have work. I already have a non EGR 2.2 thats fully rebuilt, and the 97 OBW was very cheap. Id just run the 2.5 in it, but honestly and you know you guys know why id much rather have a 2.2 in it than the EJ25D, but now I have an EJ22 thats rebuilt, and an EJ25D thats rebuilt. Just my choice on which Id rather have in my car.

[johnceggleston]

you need to make life simple. put the 2.5L in the outback. if it is done right you will not have to do it again and the 2.5 is more fun to drive, not a lot more but some.

 

once the 97 obw limited is on the road, look for a 95 - 96 manual with a bad engine and do the swap. or put the 96 2.2 and ecu in a 97 - 98 outback and sell it in a state that does not check the ecu at inspection. northern VA has emissions checks but not the rest of the state. some one here from a no-emissions check area might be willing to broker the car sale for a small fee.

 

or put the 2.2 / ecu in a 96 outback and swap the "limited" stuff from the 97 over. keep and drive the 96 , sell the 97.

[Gsir08]

you need to make life simple. put the 2.5L in the outback. if it is done right you will not have to do it again and the 2.5 is more fun to drive, not a lot more but some.

 

once the 97 obw limited is on the road, look for a 95 - 96 manual with a bad engine and do the swap. or put the 96 2.2 and ecu in a 97 - 98 outback and sell it in a state that does not check the ecu at inspection. northern VA has emissions checks but not the rest of the state. some one here from a no-emissions check area might be willing to broker the car sale for a small fee.

 

or put the 2.2 / ecu in a 96 outback and swap the "limited" stuff from the 97 over. keep and drive the 96 , sell the 97.

 

Thats the problem I'm not going for simple I'm going for cheap. And the chances of finding a manual 96 with bad motor are very very unlikely and then I'd have a 96 that isnt anywhere near as nice as this 97. I want this 97 for myself cause its the nicest one I've had. I also want to keep my 2.2 cause right now the 2.5 is in and it will pass emissions with it but then that leaves me with having to sell the 2.2. I'd rather keep the 2.2 and sell the 2.5, the 2.5 makes more power ya, but I swear less down low torque and I hate that. Also the 2.2 is just such a solid beastly motor, no question.

Personally swapping intake manifolds is easier than buying a whole new car...

Edited March 3, 2010 by Gsir08

[987687]

, but I swear less down low torque and I hate that. Also the 2.2 is just such a solid beastly motor, no question.

Personally swapping intake manifolds is easier than buying a whole new car...

 

I have a '96 2.2 with MT in my legacy, and my '99 OBW has the DOHC 2.5 and MT. And I will completely agree that the 2.5 has less low end! It drives me nuts! I always stall the 2.5 when I'm switching around because of it.

 

And the '96 ECU does sometimes set all the redyness monitors for emissions checking... but it doesn't do it very often.

[Gsir08]

Everytime they would try and test my 97 with the 96 ECU in it , everytime theyd tell me the monitors arent ready you need to drive it more. I used my scanner tool to see when all the monitors were OK and as soon as you turn the key off it clears them all. Everytime it did this and they need to turn the motor off right at the beginning of the test so it always clears the monitors. I did some research online and I guess the emissions computers know that 96 ECUS do that with the monitors.

[johnceggleston]

And I will completely agree that the 2.5 has less low end! It drives me nuts! I always stall the 2.5 when I'm switching around because of it.

 

 

put smaller tires on it like the GTs, they have outback 4.44 final drive and legacy size tires.

[987687]

Yea, mine reset as soon as I turn off the car. Can't they just leave it running when they check the computer ...?

The '96s are messed up though... in my state (Maine) they just don't check the '96 computer. As long as the CEL is off, it's good to go.

[Gsir08]

put smaller tires on it like the GTs, they have outback 4.44 final drive and legacy size tires.

 

I like my big all terrains, and aparently to do the test properly they "need" to shut the car off at the beginning of the test.

[987687]

In that case I'd just wire up a switch to always give the ECU power. Even after the car is turned off... that way the emissions stuff wouldn't be cleared. But I'm just lazy like that. I'd find that easier than drilling and tapping.

[idosubaru]

curious - what's your plan? yank the EJ25 and install the EJ22 with the EGR on it? doesn't sound too bad, that's awesome you had a spare head to test, good work!

 

if you wanted to keep a spare motor around you could do an engine swap every time just for emissions goofball emissions debacle....

 

woah - finding a way to "trick" the ECU into keeping the reddyness monitors, that's awesome. who knows how to pull that off? would just keeping it powered do that?

[987687]

woah - finding a way to "trick" the ECU into keeping the reddyness monitors, that's awesome. who knows how to pull that off? would just keeping it powered do that?

 

I don't see why not. It would basically be like having the car in run always. So some output like ignition would have to be terminated so that the engine stopped when the key is turned off.

Thing you'd need to find out is, does the data get lost when the engine stops while still in run? Next time I notice the monitors are all set I can just stall the engine and see if the stay that way. If so, wiring would be simple to give the ECU power to keep the data. Just have a switch for inspection time. I work with electronics and computers, so I find it way easier to deal with the electrical side of things rather than the mechanical side when it comes to things like this.

[Gsir08]

The concept is very good actually using the 96 ECU, although I would not be confident in my wiring enough to make it work or not mess something up. I understand how your thinking though, cause I work with engines so I think just working on the engine is much easier for me.

[Gsir08]

And yes, my plan is to swap the 2.2 back in with the EGR valve installed on it and run the 97 computer, and then try and sell the 2.5 once I pass emissions. Cause now I have 2 good motors and they're both very similar, and if I really had to pick one or the other to sell I'd rather sell the EJ25, I've just always really liked the 2.2 even though the 2.5 is a better designed motor, except for its common issues but those are taken care of. And I considered swapping everytime for emissions, but I can't keep a motor around here for that long or itd really be considered.

Also thsoe spare heads I have were either a 97 or a 98 model, so they had solid lash adjusters, cause 96 was the last year for hydraulic. And I hate hydraulic lifters, in any motor. So in the meantime I'm also going to get rid of these hydraulic lifters and use the whole rocker arm assembly and camshafts out of the newer 2.2 heads.

curious - what's your plan? yank the EJ25 and install the EJ22 with the EGR on it? doesn't sound too bad, that's awesome you had a spare head to test, good work!

 

if you wanted to keep a spare motor around you could do an engine swap every time just for emissions goofball emissions debacle....

 

woah - finding a way to "trick" the ECU into keeping the reddyness monitors, that's awesome. who knows how to pull that off? would just keeping it powered do that?

[johnceggleston]

woah - finding a way to "trick" the ECU into keeping the reddyness monitors, that's awesome. who knows how to pull that off? would just keeping it powered do that?

 

if it worked, you would only really have to use it for the inspection. the rest of the time it could shut off.

 

will a code reader check readiness / monitors or whatever they are??

[987687]

if it worked, you would only really have to use it for the inspection. the rest of the time it could shut off.

 

will a code reader check readiness / monitors or whatever they are??

 

Some do, my scangauge2 does.

[johnceggleston]

so all we need is someone with a 96 lego manual trans with a scangage2.

 

drive the car until the monitors? are ready?, stall the car on a hill (engine off key on) check to see if the monitors are still ready.

release the brake and pop the clutch so the engine starts, re-check the monitors.

 

maybe try the above and use the key to restart.

 

any volunteers?

[987687]

so all we need is someone with a 96 lego manual trans with a scangage2.

 

drive the car until the monitors? are ready?, stall the car on a hill (engine off key on) check to see if the monitors are still ready.

release the brake and pop the clutch so the engine starts, re-check the monitors.

 

maybe try the above and use the key to restart.

 

any volunteers?

I have that combination! And a very hilly driveway to test it out in.

This weekend I have a 45 minute drive. That should be plenty to have everything set.

[Gsir08]

I have a scan tool, and can check all my IM monitors, and the only thing I'm wondering is. How could you get the motor to stall right when they bring it to emissions and be able to start it back up? These legacys wont even let you turn the key to start I don't think if youve already started the motor. And youd have to figure out how you could keep power to the computer memory but shut power off so when you turn the key off the computer would be powered. I'm afraid the motor would keep running if the ECU still has power with key off.

[987687]

I have a scan tool, and can check all my IM monitors, and the only thing I'm wondering is. How could you get the motor to stall right when they bring it to emissions and be able to start it back up? These legacys wont even let you turn the key to start I don't think if youve already started the motor. And youd have to figure out how you could keep power to the computer memory but shut power off so when you turn the key off the computer would be powered. I'm afraid the motor would keep running if the ECU still has power with key off.

 

Read what I said before. Keep the ECU powered ALWAYS to keep the monitors set. When the key is turned off it would have to kill ignition or something so the engine stopped.

[Gsir08]

Ya i dont know how you could ever kill the engine and leave power to the ECU. I think leaving power to it would leave hte motor running

[johnceggleston]

Ya i dont know how you could ever kill the engine and leave power to the ECU. I think leaving power to it would leave the motor running

 

think of it as trying to leave the headlights on when you turn the car off. all it takes is a wire from the battery to the headlights, or in this case the ecu.

 

 

but until some research is done to see if this will even work, there is not a lot of reason to even think about it.

 

and it is easy to get a manual trans to turn off leaving the key on, put it in 5th gear, hold the brake and let out the clutch.

or cut the power supply to the coil, or the fuel pump.

[987687]

Confirmed. Set out this morning. Not ready for emissions. After about 50 mins of driving, before I stopped I checked again. Emissions ready. So I found a hill. Stalled, did a rolling start. And the ECU was still ready.