Repair time

[Arty]

If I decide to take on the task of replacing the hg myself on my phase 1 ej25, how much difficulty am i looking at here? it seems pretty basic and straight forward. is it something i could do in the street, even? because that's all i've got in terms of a garage.

 

Also, how much would one be looking at for parts? And if I go oem on the gaskets, will I be replacing them again in two years?

[MilesFox]

if you had all the parts at once, the work can be done in a weekend easy if you know right what to get to.

 

It will save you much time and frustration if you pull the motor, especially if you do engine seals.

 

doing a head gasket should be a permanent fix. the new head gaskets are updated. whatever you buy as a current part will supersede the original.

 

do you have experience doing head gaskets on other cars?

it makes sense to do both headgaskets o the subaru. the head bolts are like TTY in the torque sequence but you can re use them, as some folks have.

 

be careful with torque on the cam caps. remember, you are torquing steel bolts into aluminum threads with a finer pitch

[mr.radon]

I did this recently, but as with all things getting all the parts took the longest. Once I was in there I decided to lap the valves and a few other things. If you just did the HG's and nothing else, don't bother pulling the motor, just unbolt it from the frame, remove the dog bone, jack it up and go to town. Should be two half days of work.

[Arty]

if you had all the parts at once, the work can be done in a weekend easy if you know right what to get to.

 

It will save you much time and frustration if you pull the motor, especially if you do engine seals.

 

doing a head gasket should be a permanent fix. the new head gaskets are updated. whatever you buy as a current part will supersede the original.

 

do you have experience doing head gaskets on other cars?

it makes sense to do both headgaskets o the subaru. the head bolts are like TTY in the torque sequence but you can re use them, as some folks have.

 

be careful with torque on the cam caps. remember, you are torquing steel bolts into aluminum threads with a finer pitch

 

I've actually never messed with head gaskets before, but from what I've been reading on this board, it seems like it's a doable repair.

 

I am, however, kind of worried about the head bolts. I've been reading half the people on here buying new ones, as they claim they're TTY, and the other half says they're NOT TTY, and I'm not really sure what to believe.

[Arty]

I did this recently, but as with all things getting all the parts took the longest. Once I was in there I decided to lap the valves and a few other things. If you just did the HG's and nothing else, don't bother pulling the motor, just unbolt it from the frame, remove the dog bone, jack it up and go to town. Should be two half days of work.

 

Did you replace the head bolts? Also, should I bother buying the entire head gasket kit, or just get the head gaskets and leave the rest for much later?

[Mike104]

Steel bolts in Aluminum head/block. You will strip out the threads before the bolt yields IMO.

 

Doing this job out on the street is possible but a garage or driveway would be better (warmer weather too). There are alot of how to threads on this job here and in other forums. I would say that it is a doable job if you have the tools and down time to do it. I would say $300-$500 for parts depending on where you source them from. Some should be OEM or equivalent supplier. HGs and Thermostat definitely Subaru. I have heard that some Felpro engine gasket sets have Subaru Head Gaskets in the kit.

 

Since you are going to change the HGs I would do the whole thing (heads checked for flatness/leak down test of valves/replace valve seals, replace timing belt/tensioner/idlers/reseal camshafts/front crank seal, replace water pump and reseal oil pump). If you do all that the engine should last for another 100k.

 

How many miles on the engine now?

 

Here is a link to a DIY with photos from a Forester:

 

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/how-replace-ej25-head-gaskets-without-removing-engine-57335/

Edited March 4, 2010 by Mike104

[Arty]

Steel bolts in Aluminum head/block. You will strip out the threads before the bolt yields IMO.

 

Doing this job out on the street is possible but a garage or driveway would be better (warmer weather too). There are alot of how to threads on this job here and in other forums. I would say that it is a doable job if you have the tools and down time to do it. I would say $300-$500 for parts depending on where you source them from. Some should be OEM or equivalent supplier. HGs and Thermostat definitely Subaru. I have heard that some Felpro engine gasket sets have Subaru Head Gaskets in the kit.

 

Since you are going to change the HGs I would do the whole thing (heads checked for flatness/leak down test of valves/replace valve seals, replace timing belt/tensioner/idlers/reseal camshafts/front crank seal, replace water pump and reseal oil pump). If you do all that the engine should last for another 100k.

 

How many miles on the engine now?

 

Here is a link to a DIY with photos from a Forester:

 

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/how-replace-ej25-head-gaskets-without-removing-engine-57335/

 

 

Yeah, that link is what gave me the idea to do it myself. I will have some extended down time here shortly, and if the weather forecasts are correct, it should start warming up here soon. But are the new OEM head gaskets better now? I'm quite reluctant to buy OEM if that's what seem to be the problem in the first place.

[Mike104]

The gasket has been changed a number of times since your engine was made.

 

This guy says he has a better mousetrap (HG):

 

http://allwheeldriveauto.com/a-better-subaru-25l-head-gasket-in-seattle/

 

Subaru did also introduce a new gasket for the 2010 2.5L Outback.

 

This is a good video that explains the issues:

 

http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-change/

[MilesFox]

I have re-used the head bolts myself doing a 2.5. I have ALWAYS re-used the bolts with ea82's every time, since the old subarus do not require new bolts.

 

The felpro kit i had also contained oem gaskets wit fuju marks, along with mexican cam seals and felpro stamped intake and exhaust gaskets.

 

I paid 250 in parts for the head gasket set, and a separate oil pan gasket.

 

the timing belt set with idlers(gates manufacture) for 300 bucks.

 

It cost me a little over 500 bucks to do the work. if you want to be cheap, just do what is involved with the HG, and come back and do the other stuff later, if you work on your car often enough

 

 

Also, undoing the motor mount and dog bone, raising the engine up a little will give you better clearance with motor in car.

 

although i have not done it, the EJ motors look lile they would be easier to do in-car vs ea82's, less overall parts to remove, none of the peskey lifters and followers that fall off when you try to install the cams(ea82)

[Arty]

The timing belt and water pump were recently replaced... I'd like to just change a few gaskets, but not so much the entire part. Now I'm just worried about block warpage.

 

Any ideas on how much it would be to have a machine shop redo one if it is warped?

[Arty]

I have re-used the head bolts myself doing a 2.5. I have ALWAYS re-used the bolts with ea82's every time, since the old subarus do not require new bolts.

 

The felpro kit i had also contained oem gaskets wit fuju marks, along with mexican cam seals and felpro stamped intake and exhaust gaskets.

 

I paid 250 in parts for the head gasket set, and a separate oil pan gasket.

 

the timing belt set with idlers(gates manufacture) for 300 bucks.

 

It cost me a little over 500 bucks to do the work. if you want to be cheap, just do what is involved with the HG, and come back and do the other stuff later, if you work on your car often enough

 

 

Also, undoing the motor mount and dog bone, raising the engine up a little will give you better clearance with motor in car.

 

although i have not done it, the EJ motors look lile they would be easier to do in-car vs ea82's, less overall parts to remove, none of the peskey lifters and followers that fall off when you try to install the cams(ea82)

 

Would I be able to get away with JUST the hg's for now, or would I need some other gaskets?

[MilesFox]

you will need intake and exhaust gaskets. You can do the cam seals before you reinstall the head. There is a water crossover pipe under the intake, go ahead and change the o-rings in that, since it can leak, and you would have to pull the intake to repair it

 

you can leave the front crank seal and the oil/waterpump/timingbelt/idlers alone if you plan to come back and service those in the future.

 

you should be able to buy the HG themselves individually, and pick up the other gaskets as individual parts. weigh the cost of individual parts vs a complete gasket set and get what's most economical

[Arty]

Any ideas on how much it will be to have the heads done at a machine shop?

[MilesFox]

No clue on labor rates. I have always just re-used ea82 heads as they were. I pulled off a set of good ones and they measured .005 and .006 warped(concave) and the limit is .002.

 

if you look at the torque sequence, you will see how the heads will flatten out.

 

you could try yourself to take a drift and try and close the cracks between the valves.

 

the worse thing that can happen with the crack between the valve is the potential to drop a valve seat, if the crack opens up enough