Issue with '88 GL10 wagon

[Christred]

I really don't know how to describe the issue clearly so bare with me...The wagon has been drivable for about two days now...when I am trying to take off from idling it doesn't want to quite go, depending on its mood however...it will start out fine but then it will hiccup and the engine will stop almost like it is trying to stall...I pump the gas a few times and it quits and runs normally sometimes it will start to do it again...I have no idea what it could be...just looking for some information (not a mech btw just wanting to learn)..Dad thinks it might be something to do with the ignition system, cannot remember word for word at the moment...However once it gets to a certain point (35mph and above) it doesn't do it as often hardly at all...really stuck on what it might be.

 

I can get from point A to point B without any other issue...just would like to know what is going on...

Edited March 9, 2010 by Christred

[Cougar]

The throttle position sensor may have dirty contacts.

[TomRhere]

TPS was my 1st guess, MAF for the next guess.

 

Car has been sitting here for 5 years with no engine, it's got one now! Solid lifter EA-81 running the '88's SPFI. Good runner when it was in the '86 BRAT, (it was a replacement engine).

 

Need to spend time with it figuring things out, but work hours put that stuff to the weekends.

 

I need to get some carb cleaner, along with other goodies and cleanout a few items, see what happens then.

 

Do know, when I drove it last night, it does want to fall on it's face when taking off from a stop. Gotta play with the go-pedal some. But,, when I turned it around, (to park it in the road), put it reverse and gave it gas, it went like there was no problem. ?!?!? Stopped, and gave it some gas again, and yeah, it goes in reverse just fine. WTH???

 

Not real keen on FI systems, so I have some learning to do on them. I'll dig thru some of the older posts on here, see what things I can glean from them.

We've owned a few different Makes/Models with FI, but I didn't have to do much to them, and have friends that know those particular systems well if problem came along. They don't know Subaru systems though.

[john in KY]

My thinking is the engine has an air leak downstream of the AFM and as a result has low rpm power. Reason engine seems to run well in reverse probably due to torque multiplication: reverse gear geared lower than 1st gear.

[dhise]

Any idea how old the oxygen sensor is? My loyale sure ran alot better when I put a new one in at 120k miles. There are test procedures for the other sensors in the downloadable parts of the FSM. The loyale also ran a bit better with a new coolant temp sensor even though ithe old one tested within parameters. As said above, make sure aren't any vacuum leaks, pcv system included.

[GeneralDisorder]

It could be any number of things. First thing is to run a full D-Check to see what the computer can tell you.

 

Beyond that - the last EA82 SPFI I had that did this - nothing fixed it. Eventually the timing belt broke on the freeway and replacing it fixed the problem. I imagine that the belt was loose/stretched and the valve timing was fluttering around enough to cause the occasional stall/bog that I could never trace.

 

GD

[dhise]

We can be sure it isn't a timing belt stretching issue with the ea81 he put in there.

[TomRhere]

Worked on it some today. Forgot to bring home the DMM, so didn't check anything for voltages and what nots. Was a long week at work, 12 hour days all week, including yesterday. I be a tired puppy. But I needed to wrench on the BRAT, so figured I'd look into a few things on the Wagon. Mother Nature even blessed up with a nice drizzly day to do this.

 

Got some Seafoam and carb cleaner. Dumped most of the seafoam in the tank, but kept some to draw into the intake thru the vac line for the heater system. Nice smoke cloud effect....

 

Spraying carb cleaner around didn't show any signs of a vac leak on any hose or what have you. So thinking we can rule a vac leak out.

 

Pulled the TPS off the throttlebody and checked it out. Found some corrosion on the pins and in the plug. Cleaned them as best I could, but probally didn't get it good enough. Even swapped TPS with another one I had laying around, just cause it "looked" better.

 

Cleaned the MAF plug pins and connector also, as it showed some corrosion.

 

"Slight" improvement in the engine as far as taking off from a stop goes, but nothing to get excited about. Hesitation/stumble is still there, just not quite as bad. Need to get some cleaner for the connectors, see if that helps any.

 

Forgot to run a code check. Like I said, I be tired, brain not wanting to work, wants to rest.

 

Not sure what my work schedule is for the coming week, but I'll try to get back to it before the weekend gets here.

[Gloyale]

Plugs, wires, cap, rotor.

[MilesFox]

is there an ea81 running spfi in this rig? make sure the timing marks are correct. the ea81 has marks on a different location on the flywheel than the ea82.

 

if you are using the ea82 flexplate this will reflect ea82 timing.

 

if this is the case, your timing must be some 30 deg off.

[TomRhere]

Yeah, EA81 engine running the '88s SPFI and auto trans.

 

Pretty sure I got the timing marks transfered over correctly, but I can re-check that.

 

Son drove car yesterday, says the stumble got way worse. But it would go great in reverse.

So,,, he drove it home in reverse.......

 

Gotta get this figured out. Back on 9 hour days for the moment, so I have a bit of time after I get home to do a few checks on things.

 

Cap, rotor, plugs are all new. Good wires on it, but they're not new ones.

 

Other thread I had going on it.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=104479

 

I remember Noah saying he had issues with this car, but what those were I can't recall. All of his threads are long gone from this site. His screen names don't show either, so all was lost.....

Edited March 16, 2010 by TomRhere

[Suba9792]

Check the vaccum lines, fuel filter, and maybe even the pump it self, do an entire system flush you just may have some bad crap inside.

[Cougar]

Check the intake manifold gaskets for an air leak by spraying some WD-40 around the seals while the engine is running and see if the engine speed changes.

[TomRhere]

Check the vaccum lines, fuel filter, and maybe even the pump it self, do an entire system flush you just may have some bad crap inside.

 

Check the intake manifold gaskets for an air leak by spraying some WD-40 around the seals while the engine is running and see if the engine speed changes.

 

 

Layed waste to 2 cans of carb cleaner checking any and all possible sources of vac leak. Nothing indicated... Every hose, gasket, tube, fitting, ect., etc., etc....

 

Kicker is; it will go down the road just fine and dandy in reverse!!!

Put it any forward gear selection, and it falls on it's face when you give it any throttle input. Have to "feather-pump" the go-pedal to take off from a stop in forward gears.

 

No make sense....... :-\

 

Just came in from checking the disty timing to the crank position/#1 clylinder compression stroke.

I have to be within 2* of being right on time according to the pencil in the plug hole TDC figuring method.

 

NOTE: Don't recall where I read it, or who told me this, but....

Just placing the EA81 flywheel ontop of the EA82 flywheel to transfer the timing marks is not accurate.

Aligning the bolt holes still leaves a 6* difference in the timing between the 2 engines.

EA82 flywheel on an EA81 engine leaves you 6* more advanced with the timing. IE; 0* on EA81 flywheel reads 6* BTDC on the EA82 flywheel.

Definet difference in where the 2 engines have the timing holes located, but apparently, the bolt holes on the cranks are clocked differently also. 'Cause as Miles stated previously, there's about a 30* difference in where those are located between the 2 engines, so the crank holes have to be clocked differently also to only be 6* different.

 

Found that out when I did the alignment method myself during the engine swap.

 

Pulled a U-check on codes, got 7 flashes of O2 light. Indicates '88 48 State Auto Trans according to my Haynes manual.

Check engine light didn't light with key on, (never really noticed that before, and/or don't recall it not working), but I'm thinking now, Noah may have pulled the bulb out when he did the CIS conversion. Haven't pulled the dash panel to confirm that yet.

 

Pulled tests on the TPS and MAF/MAS/AFM (whatever you want to call it).

All check out good according the manual I have.

 

 

Do know;

During the U-check test, (green connectors connected), I had clicking under the hood, but no fuel pump cycling. FP is supposed to cycle, right??

So??!!?!?!?! Indication of "ECM issue" here with that?

 

Numbers on ECM tag are;

22611--AA392

MECF-022

8201-----4E

Build date of vehicle, 02/88

 

Wanting to pull the D-check, but need to find that info on here. It's not covered in the Haynes. I know I've seen it, just need to test my "search" skills. HaHA!

 

If I haven't figured this out by this coming weekend... SPFI is coming off, Weber is going on........

[Subarule]

Vacuum hose(s) leak, perhaps. Those babies get old & crack.

[TomRhere]

Found info on "D"-check. Was here on this computer, buried......

 

Digging into it, will post back results sometime this weekend..

[TomRhere]

Ok. Had to do an 8 hour day at work today. Get back here and go thru the "fun" of pulling the cluster, to find that Noah had pulled the bulb for the ESC light. Replaced it, and re-installed cluster.

 

Turn key "on", no ECS light. Grrrr!!!! Taking a break, before I start "breaking" things. Not,,, a Happy Camper!

[Cougar]

Check to see if power is getting to the bulb. I think the ECU makes a ground connection to turn the light on. If there is power at the bulb and you can trace it down to the ECU connection then the ECU circuit is bad.

[TomRhere]

Yeah, I'm thinking there is definet issues with the wiring and ECU in this Wagon. Some issues may have been there when Noah had it, others may have came from it sitting here for 5 years, IE; corroded contacts in connectors.

 

Plan for later today is, go carb. I just don't have the needed time to do in-depth troubleshooting of the SPFI system. Need this Wagon on the road, asap.

 

Work to do;

Swap the intake out for the Weber setup I have, swap disty out, swap fuelpump out.

 

I already have a carb type EA82 disty reworked for the EA81 engine, it was going to go into my '85 BRAT, (whole different story there), but,, it's needed in this engine for now. I'm out of "good" EA81 type disty's.

 

Fuelpump will be out of the '86 BRAT the Wagon's current engine came out of.

 

Engine ran exccelant when it was in the '86 BRAT with the Weber setup on it. Only unknown as of this moment is the EA82 disty I'll be installing, but I have a couple of those, so spare parts are available.

[TomRhere]

It Lives, once again.

 

Had to do some more clearancing trimmage on the powersteering mount bracket to clear the carb intake.

 

Time spent hunting up enough fuel hose to re-route to the Weber.

 

Located an ingnition "hot" wire to feed the choke coil. Blue/Red wire in the Large Black connector, read battery voltage with key "on".

 

Adapted the fuel pump into the Wagon. FP actually came out of an '86 Sedan I bought of MilesFox awhile ago. Rounded up proper fittings for the fuel lines. Made me a pig-tail to adapt the wiring over without having to change anything under the Wagon.

Had to take a hammer to the FP to get it to run, but it works now.

 

Still have some "finishing touches" to do to it. But it can be driven down the road now. Christopher took it for a couple trips up&down our street. Ran good, no hesitation at all. I do need to address the Y-pipe gaskets, they be a bit leaky. Put used ones on during engine install, have new ones now, just didn't get to that today..

 

May just leave it the way it is now, may look into the SPFI issues later this summer or so. Not sure right now. Just happy it's running good.....

[TomRhere]

Definetly have issue with the brain in this Wagon....

 

Christopher sent me a text yesterday, saying the "check engine light" came on. Sent him one back saying not to worry about it.

 

Only took it 10 days to figure out something wasn't right under the hood any more.

 

Going to pull the dash and remove the bulb this weekend.

 

Engine has been running good since swapping the Weber in. Had a "crank but no start" issue again. But it started right up when I got home and gave it a jump.

 

Need to do some cleaning of the grounding points, and swap starters. This starter doesn't always want to stop cranking engine when you let go of key. Even keeps cranking when I jump it at the starter, so I know it's a solenoid issue atleast, and not something with wiring in the car.

[TomRhere]

Spent some time wrenching on it yesterday.

 

Pulled the starter and tore it apart, cleaned and lubed everything, re-installed it. Seems to work properly now.

 

Finally got an electric fan mounted to the radiator.

 

Had a few instances of it wanting to buck-n-jerk going down the road the past few days. Was thinking fuelpump issue, so I swapped the one in from the '86 BRAT. No help. Fuel filters were new when I put the engine in, so I'm thinking they're good. May have to open the carb up and clean it..

 

Took it for a drive myself, and yeah, it acts just like it's starving for gas. Let off the pedal a bit when it does the herkyjerky thing, and it runs good. So yeah, fuel issue....

[TomRhere]

Definet fuel flow issue.

 

I installed a clear fuel filter under the hood the other day. Yesterday, Chirstopher took the Wagon for a drive. When he came back, I popped the hood. Very little gas showing in the filter, was nearly full when I started the engine after installing the filter.

 

So,,, either the pick-up screen is somewhat clogged, or I'm losing power to the pump somehow.

 

I'll pull the tank line later, blow some air back thru it, see if that helps any. Not real sure what to do if it's electrical, but I'll figure something out.

[TomRhere]

Pulled the tank to pump line off, and blew air back thru hoping to clean the pickup screen some. May have helped, as Son took it for a drive and actually was able to get it up to 55 MPH without issues.

 

Still, the clear fuel filter I have under the hood is less than 1/4 full. I have it mounted so the "in" line is at the bottom, "out" is at the top. Thinking it should show more fuel in it sitting like that.???

 

We then set about seeing what was the issue with the DS rear door not wanting to open. Managed to pull the trim panel off without to much damage.

Messed with the linkages for the latch, and got it to open. Did some adjusting and bending of the rods, door now opens from both sides.:]

 

Hoping we have the drivability issue fixed. Much more to do on it. But that's all for another thread or 2, 3, 4, 5....