Vehicle Selection

[gofastica]

I'm just getting into Subaru for offroad fun, and I've got a question about vehicle selection. I want a wagon, and I'm looking at mid-'80's cars just because those are easiest to find in my area for a reasonable price.

 

Anyway, I mentioned this to the guy who does my machine work and he tells me he's got one in his garage that he'll sell me real cheap 'cause it needs a head gasket. I can do that, so we go take a look.

 

The car is an '88 wagon, with everything. Turbo, pneumatic suspension, all power stuff, digital dash, automatic, and 95k miles. I'm not a fan of the automatic, or the digital dash, or the suspension, or all the power accessories, but he really wants his garage back. He's making me a really good deal.

 

So I guess my question is, would this be a suitable vehicle to begin with? I don't want to spend the time / effort / money to fix the head, just to find out that I need to do other mods that maybe I wouldn't have had to do if I had started with a different car.

 

Like I said, I'm just getting into this, so I don't know if I'm even starting in the right place. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Thanks

Bryan in Oly

[Turbone]

This is not a good choice for a offroader.

While most will say a turbo isnt desirable for offroad use, this one in particular more so. Even if you didnt take it offroad, the engine will give you lots of headaches. Plus all the electrical goodies in the car will play havoc with you if things get wet, which is highly likely living in W. WA.

Also, the suspension will need to be removed and swapped out with standard stuff (maybe a lift too).

And the AT will suck for offroad use. It should have a 5spd dual range for offroad use.

[The Dude Abides]

+1

Even if its a good deal some things are to much trouble.

 

What you want is a basically any 79-89 subaru GL. Those have dual range trannys with both high and low range. Stick with a 5 speed because the auto trannys for these cars are troublesome and just plane suck. If it were me, i would stick with the fuel injection because though the ea81 engine is better (1979-84 in the wagon) ive seen the carbs on these engines be kinda headache. FI is much better for some of the extreme articulation the washington boys take there cars. Lots of people make lifts around here, you can go from simple 2 inch to extreme 8inch or more. Check out the offroad section and see some of the rides they have there. Wheels your limited to redrilling 6 lug wheels or finding some peugeot wheels. Its all been covered, spend a few hours useing the search function and i promise you you will have all your answers.

[gofastica]

That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Thank you. I'm sure I'll have lots more questions when I find the right car.

[Gloyale]

Good candidate for an EJ swap.

 

Offroading it would require alot of moddification.

 

Though, if it is an 88 turbo it should have the far superior 4EAT automatic, not the old pushbutton 3 spd. I wheeled a car with a 4eat for years.

[idosubaru]

Subaru's can treat you right for functional useage. If you're looking strictly for play like trail riding, clearance, rocks, deep mud, stream crossings all the time then you'll want to follow all the advice above.

 

A turbo wagon needing headgaskets is almost worthless, not worth much more than scrap prices so it should be a really good deal particularly where you live with Subaru's everywhere that dont' rot to death. Even out here it's hardly worth anything.

 

But - it's not a bad vehicle. The turbo, while one of the worst Subaru engines, can be made fairly reliable if you don't boost it (it's not a track car) and replace all the 20 year old hoses, seals, and gaskets. They can be reliable, just most aren't worth the time/money since their monetary value is so low. A labor of love no doubt.

 

The auto's treat me just fine in snow/offroad by adding the Duty C mod. Just splice one wire and you can make it "locked". I don't play though, I have to traverse unmaintained snow covered roads, hunt, and drive around my property for basic maintenance like towing downed trees, etc. For my purposes the auto is fine. For serious offroading I defer to the folks that know what they're talking about.

[ivantruckman]

IMHO, the 5 speed dual range is a must when running larger tires, its hard to climb hills with 29 inch tires in 4wd hi.

[Don_Quixpunch]

One more thing, somebody mentioned going as far back as 79 in a GL model. I could be wrong, but I believe 81 was the first year of the dual range trans. And the earlier years of dual range were 4 speed. The 5 speed is stronger, lighter, and shifts smoother.

 

If you do look at the older cars, keep in mind that you probably won't like the 4 speed dual range, but a 5 speed can be swapped in and you could even find an old car with the swap already done.

[GeneralDisorder]

For off-road purposes, you want an EA81 hatchback. The wagon's are too long and too heavy.

 

EA81 hatch, SPFI or EJ22 swap (or Weber - but not as fun), 5 speed D/R, 4" lift.

 

That will get you where you want to be in a hurry. Anything less..... you'll be wishing you have followed my advice in the first place very soon after taking it off-road.

 

GD

[Turbone]

That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Thank you. I'm sure I'll have lots more questions when I find the right car.

 

If you want something for offroad, look no further.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=86866&highlight=Turbone

 

Contact me for more info.

[SoobieDoo]

For off-road purposes, you want an EA81 hatchback. The wagon's are too long and too heavy.

 

EA81 hatch, SPFI or EJ22 swap (or Weber - but not as fun), 5 speed D/R, 4" lift.

 

That will get you where you want to be in a hurry. Anything less..... you'll be wishing you have followed my advice in the first place very soon after taking it off-road.

 

GD

 

For off-road purposes, you want an EA82 Wagon. The hatchback's break axles too easily.

 

EA81 engine, SPFI or EJ22 swap (or Weber - but not as fun), 5 speed D/R, 4" lift.

 

That will get you where you want to be in a hurry. Anything less..... you'll be wishing you have followed my advice in the first place very soon after taking it off-road.

 

EG

[gofastica]

For off-road purposes, you want an EA81 hatchback. The wagon's are too long and too heavy.

 

 

For off-road purposes, you want an EA82 Wagon. The hatchback's break axles too easily.

 

Am I going to find this to be a common rivalry? Harvard - Yale....Red Sox - Yankees....Hatfields - McCoy's....wagon's - hatch's?

 

 

If you want something for offroad, look no further.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=86866&highlight=Turbone

 

Nice rig, but for me the build is the fun part.

[GeneralDisorder]

Am I going to find this to be a common rivalry? Harvard - Yale....Red Sox - Yankees....Hatfields - McCoy's....wagon's - hatch's?

 

Hardly - most will agree that the EA81 hatch is the best choice for a trail machine. It takes the least amount of modification, and has the shortest wheel-base and lightest weight of any model ever made. The EA82 wagons are easily 500 lbs heavier and have a very poor departure angle. In stock form they have worse power-to-weight than any of the EA81's.

 

The EA82 wagon *can* be a good machine - but it takes more lift, bigger tires, and more HP to do it. And then you have an overall larger machine that's harder to manuever. My first lifted rig (still own it) was a lifted EA81 wagon. It's too heavy and too long.

 

As for the EA81's breaking axles - that's entirely dependant on how they are setup. The EA82's have the same axle joints in the rear - they swap back and forth easily between the two shafts. I've used EA82 rear axle joints on my EA81 wheeler for years. Axle breakage is a function of the speed and angle of the joint - nothing more.

 

GD

[Sioux-baru]

Hardly - most will agree that the EA81 hatch is the best choice for a trail machine. It takes the least amount of modification, and has the shortest wheel-base and lightest weight of any model ever made. The EA82 wagons are easily 500 lbs heavier and have a very poor departure angle. In stock form they have worse power-to-weight than any of the EA81's.

 

The EA82 wagon *can* be a good machine - but it takes more lift, bigger tires, and more HP to do it. And then you have an overall larger machine that's harder to manuever. My first lifted rig (still own it) was a lifted EA81 wagon. It's too heavy and too long.

 

As for the EA81's breaking axles - that's entirely dependant on how they are setup. The EA82's have the same axle joints in the rear - they swap back and forth easily between the two shafts. I've used EA82 rear axle joints on my EA81 wheeler for years. Axle breakage is a function of the speed and angle of the joint - nothing more.

 

GD

 

 

So are you suggesting that an engine upgrade to ej22 would be in order for a wagon to be a more proper weight to power ratio?

What EA tranny would match to a Ej22?

[GeneralDisorder]

So are you suggesting that an engine upgrade to ej22 would be in order for a wagon to be a more proper weight to power ratio?

 

That would do for the weight and the neccesary extra large tires to get the approach/departure angles decent. Still doesn't solve the long wheel-base nor the size of the vehicle. Not without major cut/weld hillbilly style body work.

 

What EA tranny would match to a Ej22?

 

Any of the side-starter transmissions with the right adaptor plate/flywheel/clutch combo. The most popular is of course the 5 speed D/R from the '85 to '89 GL's.

 

GD

[Qman]

For off-road purposes, you want an EA82 Wagon. The hatchback's break axles too easily.

 

EA81 engine, SPFI or EJ22 swap (or Weber - but not as fun), 5 speed D/R, 4" lift.

 

 

First, body style has absolutely nothing to do with breaking axles. I broke 2 axles in 5 yrs of wheeling my hatch. A properly built EA81 with a Weber is just as reliable and fun to drive as anything else. Again, 5yrs of wheeling my hatch with that set up. No problems.

 

I will agree that the Hatch is the best wheeling rig. But, having shorter wheel base is not always the best option. The fact that any EA81 is under 100" wheel base and under 72" wide. Wagon, Hatch, BRAT, sedan or Coupe all work. EA82 wagon, 3dr or sedan all work. Each has differences that someone will like or dislike. The main points you need to consider are manual transmission with dual range. Carbed or injected, both work. EJ swaps give superior power with injection. But, add a cam to your EA81 or EA82 and it becomes a different vehicle.

 

In other words... pick the one you like and build it like you want it. There are so many links to so many rigs that were built here that it may take you a while to decide from that.

 

Do what you like!

[SoobieDoo]

^ +1

...exactly my point in "modifying" GD's quote. It's easy enough to run EA82 axles on a hatch, and the wheelbase, weight, and departure angles are great...but it is not the only subaru worth offroading. I like the wagon mainly for it's cargo space, and departure has never been a prob with 4" of lift. (Don't ask my tailpipe, though)

[Uberoo]

tailpipe,smailepipe. My muffler fell off out wheeling.And the mudflaps,and a mirror got bashed off,etc...

 

it really doesn't matter which subaru you choose.they are all fairly small and can fit most places the "normal" 4x4's can't.true a hatch might wheel better but sometimes you need cargo space...

 

heck with my brat I once parked it in one of those shopping cart isles at walmart because every other parking space was taken..

Edited March 25, 2010 by Uberoo

[monstaru]

tailpipe,smailepipe. My muffler fell off out wheeling.And the mudflaps,and a mirror got bashed off,etc...

 

it really doesn't matter which subaru you choose.they are all fairly small and can fit most places the "normal" 4x4's can't.true a hatch might wheel better but sometimes you need cargo space...

 

heck with my brat I once parked it in one of those shopping cart isles at walmart because every other parking space was taken..

 

thanks for helping us have a good rep..............

[3eyedwagon]

Just to throw some more fuel on the fire:

 

About 80% (or more) of the guys that ACTUALLY WHEEL nowadays are running EA82 wagons. Not all of them have EA82s in them, but, most of them are EA82 bodies.

 

Not talking crap about the EA81s, as they are actually what I prefer BUT, it is hard to ignore the fact that MOST of the vehicles seen on the trails these days are EA82 bodys, and of them; most are wagons. Saying that an EA81 hatch is the best/only solution is simply stupid. Take a look at any of the recent photos of wheeling trips. They are all littered with EA82 wagons, and a few scattered sedans, or hatches. Now count the EA81 hatchbacks. Oh that's right. There are like 3 around here that still run and drive, and those mostly sit at home. I am not at all discounting the ability of the EA81 hatchback, as I've seen some do some absolutely amazing things. Especially once the roof has been cut off. I am simply pointing out the relevance of the EA82 body. Simply put; the days of hatchback wheeling trips are over. Time has been the enemy of the EA81 hatchback. Now it costs too much for one in decent shape for most people to beat on it. That eliminates a huge number of them for wheeling, and the rest have mostly been pounded into the ground. The EA82s are the new EA81. Still plentiful enough to be had for cheap, and parts are lying all over the place.

 

As to say it takes a bunch of lift to make an EA82 off road capable... Once again; Ignorance. There are numerous examples of 2" suspension lifted EA82 wagons that wheel regularly in very tough conditions. They seem to do JUST FINE.

 

I can totally understand the desire to have an EA81 hatch, as they are simply cool. But, the people that want to say that the hatch is the only way to go are probably saying it for a reason. They probably have one out back right now that they don't wheel. It strokes their ego to think that it is the only hot machine around.

 

Ultimately, it is about whatever machine meets your needs, and actually gets you out on the trail. If an EA82 wagon does it, perfect. If it's an EA81 hatch, sweet. Either way, go for it. Adapt it to whatever suits you best, and get your butt on the trail.

Edited March 25, 2010 by 3eyedwagon

[The Dude Abides]

I dont know where this convro is going but i just like the wagon because it can haul all my crap and if i camp i can sleep in the car and not on the cold wet ground while listening to people chatin on the cb.

[MilesFox]

if you can get the turbo gl-10 for cheap, it would be a good candidate t fix and flip. some high school wrx fanboy would probably buy it because its a turbo subaru, fanboys always end up with grandma's gl-10 and join the forum asking what kind of turbo they can put on it. the low miles would help i sell.

 

otherwise its worth the AT for parts, and the engine for parts, and the body to build on(find a carb model donor with dual range and swap in)

[gofastica]

The flip is my current plan, to then finance a different car.

[gofastica]

Two random questions that I've had as my search has continued.

 

First, would turning a 2wd car into a 4wd car be as simple as just bolting on some driveline components? Yeah, I know, tranny swap too, but it's pretty much just bolt-on stuff, right?

 

Second, if I can swap a late model engine into an older model car, can I assume an older transmission can be swapped into a later model car? My local wrecking yard has a Forester with a very light front end hit (no airbag deployment) that they're selling pretty cheap. Can the D/R trans be adapted?

 

Thanks

[The Dude Abides]

I cant answer your 2nd question but i can answer the 1st. Yea its pretty much bolt on stuff but with the abundence of 4wd vehicles around unless your despirate you should go this route. Its definately not as easy as just changeing a engine.