Vehicle Selection

[GeneralDisorder]

First, would turning a 2wd car into a 4wd car be as simple as just bolting on some driveline components? Yeah, I know, tranny swap too, but it's pretty much just bolt-on stuff, right?

 

It's not *just* bolt in. There's a LOT of things that have to change. You need basically a whole donor car. I've done it and I'll never do it again. Basically - the only thing's that are the same are the engine and engine cross-member. Everything else - axles, front sway bar, transmission, trans cross-member, exhaust, rear end, fuel tank, etc - all different.

 

Second, if I can swap a late model engine into an older model car, can I assume an older transmission can be swapped into a later model car? My local wrecking yard has a Forester with a very light front end hit (no airbag deployment) that they're selling pretty cheap. Can the D/R trans be adapted?

 

Yes - it can be done. But that's pushing a lot of power through a D/R. You would want to rebuild it first. Going from ~85 HP to 165 HP is a big jump on a used tranmission.

 

GD

[monstaru]

ruN WHAT YA BRUNG.......

[Qman]

Two random questions that I've had as my search has continued.

 

First, would turning a 2wd car into a 4wd car be as simple as just bolting on some driveline components? Yeah, I know, tranny swap too, but it's pretty much just bolt-on stuff, right?

 

Second, if I can swap a late model engine into an older model car, can I assume an older transmission can be swapped into a later model car? My local wrecking yard has a Forester with a very light front end hit (no airbag deployment) that they're selling pretty cheap. Can the D/R trans be adapted?

 

Thanks

 

A donor car is the bet approach. As for being too much work. Not really. Bolt in the rear sub and change the fuel tank. Swap out the trans. Change the front struts. What more is there? Besides, what better way to learn the entire workings of your car by doing a tear-down and reassembly. It will take some time but is not a difficult job. Finding one that is already equipped would be faster but not as fun!!

Edited March 31, 2010 by Qman

[GeneralDisorder]

Yeah - as an "experience" it's not without it's merrit - that's true.

 

There are sometimes clearance problems with the transmission and the tunnel - it depends on which body it's going into. If it was auto/manual 2WD, year, body style, etc. On my '84 (5 speed FWD) the 4 speed didn't fit in the tunnel but I lifted it anyway so it became a non-issue in the end.

 

If you don't have a donor car it can be troublesome to locate all the parts - not to mention expensive! Some parts, like fuel tanks, are body specific as well. A hatch fuel tank is smaller for example..... For mine I bought a donor for $300 and then sold it for the same $300 with all my 2WD gear installed in it.

 

For me it's just not worth the trouble when 4WD's are availible. Dropping fuel tanks and reinstalling them is one of the nastiest, most uncomfortable jobs I've had to do on Subaru's. Personally I would rather avoid it.

 

GD

[BEECHBM69]

Second, if I can swap a late model engine into an older model car, can I assume an older transmission can be swapped into a later model car? My local wrecking yard has a Forester with a very light front end hit (no airbag deployment) that they're selling pretty cheap. Can the D/R trans be adapted?

 

 

This guy did exactly that.

 

LINKY

 

 

Dan

[Gloyale]

A donor car is the bet approach. As for being too much work. Not really. Bolt in the rear sub and change the fuel tank. Swap out the trans. Change the front struts.What more is there? Besides, what better way to learn the entire workings of your car by doing a tear-down and reassembly. It will take some time but is not a difficult job. Finding one that is already equipped would be faster but not as fun!!

 

mounting the mustache bar. gotta drill through the floor and bolt in the mounts.

 

Only reason to ever really consider doing this would be to have a 4wd EA81 coupe(only came 2wd) or sedan(a few 4wd's, I have one:grin: but very rare compared to the 2wd)

 

perhaps if you found an 88 or 89 "standard" hatch with a perfect body and interior that was 2wd it would be worth it.

 

Never for an EA82. too much work when 4wds are all over.

[GeneralDisorder]

On my '84 wagon the capture nuts for the mustache bar were already there - just ran a tap into the holes and cleaned out the threads.

 

But it depends on the body/year as to if they have them already or not.

 

I agree - there are only a very few times this would be worth the effort.

 

Turbo coupe's were 4WD

 

GD

[Gloyale]

On my '84 wagon the capture nuts for the mustache bar were already there - just ran a tap into the holes and cleaned out the threads.

 

But it depends on the body/year as to if they have them already or not.

 

I agree - there are only a very few times this would be worth the effort.

 

Turbo coupe's were 4WD

 

GD

 

Yeah I saw a unicorn driving one the other day:rolleyes:

[gofastica]

perhaps if you found an 88 or 89 "standard" hatch with a perfect body and interior that was 2wd it would be worth it.

 

Never for an EA82. too much work when 4wds are all over.

 

I agree - there are only a very few times this would be worth the effort.

 

 

I saw a car posted locally on craigslist that someone had dropped a tree on, and I've seen some real cheap 2wd cars. I figure everything has to come apart for a lift, and other maintenance/repairs/mods, so it's not that much more difficult to bolt it back onto another car.

 

The car the tree fell on sold almost instantly though.

 

That turbo wagon is looking better, simply because I see it every day. It doesn't help that my local wrecking yard has a 4wd wagon of about the same vintage sitting in their holding pen, just waiting to hit the yard, which would obviously provide a huge source of parts if I wanted to swap in the d/r 5 speed.

 

The search continues. I really appreciate everybody's input. Great board...great community of people. I've been on a few forums (not subie)that weren't. Thanks a bunch.

[gofastica]

Slightly off topic, but since I started the thread I'm not gonna complain.

 

I see lots of Sub's for sale with blown head gaskets. I assume this is a common problem? Causes? Cures?

 

Thanks

[Qman]

This guy did exactly that.

 

LINKY

 

 

Dan

 

Actually, that guy did none of his own work. That is one that Mudrat did before he was banned here. It did have all the goodies though. It does have a 5sp D/R from a GL/Loyale.

[GeneralDisorder]

I see lots of Sub's for sale with blown head gaskets. I assume this is a common problem? Causes? Cures?

 

Thanks

 

It's common with phase I DOHC 2.5's (EJ25) ('96 to '99 model years), as well as the Phase II SOHC's ('00 to '05[?])but in a slightly different, less problematic way.

 

EA82T's blow them pretty easily as well - though that's more of an ageing cooling system/turbocharged deal than a specific problem with the engine.

 

N/A EA82's have been known to blow them up around 175k to 225k or so. Usually once in the life (300k+) of a well-cared for engine they will go.

 

EA71's, EA81's, EJ22's - almost never. Most go the life of the engine (300k+) on the original head gaskets.

 

GD

Edited April 7, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[Qman]

mounting the mustache bar. gotta drill through the floor and bolt in the mounts.

 

Only reason to ever really consider doing this would be to have a 4wd EA81 coupe(only came 2wd) or sedan(a few 4wd's, I have one:grin: but very rare compared to the 2wd)

 

perhaps if you found an 88 or 89 "standard" hatch with a perfect body and interior that was 2wd it would be worth it.

 

Never for an EA82. too much work when 4wds are all over.

 

EA81 T-coupe is 4wd. Sedans are quite common around here. Most of them had holes and hardware in place for 4wd. Even if you had to drill 4 holes for the mustache bar. Why would you convert a standard hatch? Never liked the large round headlights on those.

[Qman]

Yeah I saw a unicorn driving one the other day:rolleyes:

 

How about you quit being an idiot about this...

[Gloyale]

Even if you had to drill 4 holes for the mustache bar. Why would you convert a standard hatch? Never liked the large round headlights on those.

 

Standards were made until '89

 

If I found an 89 with a perfect body and no rust and a nice interior I would jump on it. Convert it, small lift, but not a wheeler. I'd want to keep it nice.

 

At the very least it's just getting hard to find unrusted bodies......starting to be a case of take what you can get for any kind of hatch.

 

EA81 T-coupe is 4wd. Sedans are quite common around here. Most of them had holes and hardware in place for 4wd. Even if you had to drill 4 holes for the mustache bar. Why would you convert a standard hatch? Never liked the large round headlights on those.

 

There were very, very, few 4wd sedans made. Most of them were sold in the mountainous areas of the country, and of those.....most are rusted away, wrecked, or driven into the ground (espscially the turbo sedans and coupes) It's no surprise you see some around, but relative to what is really for sale commonly, they just aren't up for sale.

 

To buy one, you either find beat to hell that needs too much work or garage kept low milage cars for $$$$

 

The guy is trying to find a wheeler, so he want's cheap, and really should stay away from turbos anyway right?

 

How about you quit being an idiot about this...

 

I didn't mean say they aren't out there.....but C'mon......I'm an idiot for telling him not to buy a turbo or a FWD to convert, but rather he should find a readily available 4wd car?

 

Didn't realize that wasthe USMB definition of idiocy.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Gloyale

[GeneralDisorder]

I too like the way the dual-round's look. And the greatly simplified electrical system of the STD models is appealing for a wheeler. Add a tach and oil pressure gauge of course.

 

I've always wanted a 4WD STD hatch to build a wheeler with. Hard to find but they did make them in 4WD 4 speed S/R as well as the more common 2WD 4 speed.

 

The dual-rounds have poor light output - have to add driving lights and off-road lights. They still look cool - it's just a preference thing more than anything.

 

GD

[gofastica]

...really should stay away from turbos anyway right?

 

A couple people have suggested avoiding the turbo motors, but didn't suggest why...unless I missed that part entirely. I'm looking at more horsepower and more torque, and it seems like a no-brainer. What's the problem with the turbo motors?

[GeneralDisorder]

What's the problem with the turbo motors?

 

In a word: Complexity.

 

Ultimately you want the simplest machine for a wheeler. The turbo's have WAY too much going on under the hood and that translates to a severe lack of reliability. And it's not just off-road either - they suck just being driven in a stock arrangment on the street.

 

They have problems - lots of them. Too many to go into here - but you don't want one for a wheeler. Many an EA82 owner has *downgraded* to an EA81 engine because of all the complexity of the EA82's.... and that's the non-turbo's..... running the turbo's off-road is just asking for problems.

 

GD

[Qman]

Standards were made until '89

 

If I found an 89 with a perfect body and no rust and a nice interior I would jump on it. Convert it, small lift, but not a wheeler. I'd want to keep it nice.

 

At the very least it's just getting hard to find unrusted bodies......starting to be a case of take what you can get for any kind of hatch.

 

 

 

There were very, very, few 4wd sedans made. Most of them were sold in the mountainous areas of the country, and of those.....most are rusted away, wrecked, or driven into the ground (espscially the turbo sedans and coupes) It's no surprise you see some around, but relative to what is really for sale commonly, they just aren't up for sale.

 

To buy one, you either find beat to hell that needs too much work or garage kept low milage cars for $$$$

 

The guy is trying to find a wheeler, so he want's cheap, and really should stay away from turbos anyway right?

 

 

 

I didn't mean say they aren't out there.....but C'mon......I'm an idiot for telling him not to buy a turbo or a FWD to convert, but rather he should find a readily available 4wd car?

 

Didn't realize that wasthe USMB definition of idiocy.

 

First, there were NO turbo sedans.

 

Some people actually look for rigs that are in good shape. You do not have to beat the hell out of your trail rig to enjoy the outdoors. If you have to you are doing it wrong. Learning to drive is a better idea than beating your rig and the trail to death.

 

Stupidity is not a USMB standard but it is becoming more prevalent. You have stated your opinion. And "your" facts for that matter .

[Gloyale]

First, there were NO turbo sedans.

 

I have Factory Literature from 83 and 84 that say otherwise.

[Qman]

I have Factory Literature from 83 and 84 that say otherwise.

 

Don't care. Turbo coupes BRATs and wagons. That is all that was available in the US market. Since we are in the US market it would make sense to document US markets. If you are basing your experience or knowledge off of bruchures you should probably check more than one source.

 

In 1983, the wagon and BRAT were the only Turbo options. http://www.indysworld.com/80s/general/literature/brochures/1983-turbo-d.jpg They came with an oil cooled turbo which didn't hold up too well. In late 1983 they came out with a oil/water cooled version which did much better.

 

In 1984, they widened the options to the Coupe, Wagon and BRAT. All came as automatics. Some came with analog and some had digital dash displays. GL-10 option did not mean it was a turbo equipped model.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Qman

[Gloyale]

Don't care. Turbo coupes BRATs and wagons. That is all that was available in the US market. Since we are in the US market it would make sense to document US markets. .

 

I am reffering to the Factory Service Manual "new product update" manual that was sent to US dealers in 83 and 84.

 

But hey, lets keep going on and on and on about it rather than try to help this guy figure out what to buy.

[Qman]

I am reffering to the Factory Service Manual "new product update" manual that was sent to US dealers in 83 and 84.

 

But hey, lets keep going on and on and on about it rather than try to help this guy figure out what to buy.

 

Quoting accurate information WILL help him more than anything.

[Qman]

EA81 Turbo's with manual transmission mods were very capable off-road. I know a few people who had the 4 and 5 sp D/R added later and they were very quick by 80's standards. You did have to monitor the cooling system a lot closer but they did just fine.

[GeneralDisorder]

EA81 Turbo's with manual transmission mods were very capable off-road.

 

I won't dissagree with that. Mostly it's getting to be that they are just too old - difficult to find parts for since only two years of production are out there for used parts, and most are in need of having everything gone through. The ageing electronics, injectors, and sensors would have me on edge just driving around on the street - let alone bouncing around in the woods or mud. I wouldn't reccomend it for a wheeler just because of those reasons - the EA82T is much worse and I cannot reccomend it for a wheeler even with a decent parts supply out there for the later (87+) versions.

 

And a straight EA81 with a modified cam and Weber or SPFI should come close to the performance level of the EA81T - without all the complex MPFI parts and turbo....

 

GD

Edited April 8, 2010 by GeneralDisorder