Naked Buell Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 Okay guys. I have a 85 Brat and I am wanting to do an engine upgrade. I hear a lot about the adapter plate and see pics here and there. I am pretty mechanical so I know I can make it myself if I could just get steered in the right direction on how to make it. Now if I want to put in a Wrx 2.0 Turbo, am I going to have to upgrade to the Wrx tranny or will the stock 4 speed handle the Hp and torque? Any info will help. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibs Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 You'd at LEAST want the d/r 5speed trans from the late 80's model subarus. An early legacy 5speed would probably be even better for street use. There's talk of putting the newer 6speeds in, but they would need a LOT of fabrication to fit, as they are a lot bigger than older trans. If you use a early legacy 5 speed, no adapter is needed, however you will have to fabricate a custom crossmember as they mount different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naked Buell Posted March 27, 2010 Author Share Posted March 27, 2010 You'd at LEAST want the d/r 5speed trans from the late 80's model subarus. An early legacy 5speed would probably be even better for street use. There's talk of putting the newer 6speeds in, but they would need a LOT of fabrication to fit, as they are a lot bigger than older trans. If you use a early legacy 5 speed, no adapter is needed, however you will have to fabricate a custom crossmember as they mount different. If I went with a early 90's 5 speed from an AWD subie I wouldn't be four wheel drive unless I installed the sensors at each wheel for the computer to monitor, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 A WRX turbo will absolutely destroy any of the EA transmissions - that's close to 3x the HP and more than 3x the torque. Hell - the early WRX transmissions couldn't handle it. With the light weight of the Brat you definitely at least want a WRX turbo 5 speed to go with it. There are no sensor's or electronics of any kind with the AWD 5 speed's - even the WRX 5 speed's. The 6 speed's do not have wheel sensor's either - they do have a DCCD but you can get aftermarket controller's for that. Of course the cost of the 6 speed's is typically around $4,000 to $6,000..... You will need a LOT of modfication for a WRX transplant. Off the top of my head: Engine Transmission Rear diff Custom 25 spline axles Wireing harness Pedal assembly + Clutch MC Exhaust + modifications to the engine cross member to clear the up-pipe (or replace with EA81T engine cross member (rare) Fuel pump and rubber lines upgraded to FI hose Surge tank or find Turbo Brat tank (very rare) Custom radiator/hose/fan setup. There is likely more that I'm forgetting..... This is not the project you want to undertake if you haven't worked much with Subaru's. It's not a simple bolt-in and it taxes the time and resources of established members here to do such things. If you don't have the time/money/tools/parts/people that some of the members here have - it will be even harder. Just a small example - there's an EJ swap into a Brat going on in my garage right now. The owner is doing most of the work with my guideance - it's not a turbo - it's just a plain 135 HP EJ22 mated to a 5 speed D/R. It's been in my garage over a month and I've done FI swaps into EA81's several times before so I have most of the process figured out. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naked Buell Posted March 27, 2010 Author Share Posted March 27, 2010 A WRX turbo will absolutely destroy any of the EA transmissions - that's close to 3x the HP and more than 3x the torque. Hell - the early WRX transmissions couldn't handle it. With the light weight of the Brat you definitely at least want a WRX turbo 5 speed to go with it. There are no sensor's or electronics of any kind with the AWD 5 speed's - even the WRX 5 speed's. The 6 speed's do not have wheel sensor's either - they do have a DCCD but you can get aftermarket controller's for that. Of course the cost of the 6 speed's is typically around $4,000 to $6,000..... You will need a LOT of modfication for a WRX transplant. Off the top of my head: Engine Transmission Rear diff Custom 25 spline axles Wireing harness Pedal assembly + Clutch MC Exhaust + modifications to the engine cross member to clear the up-pipe (or replace with EA81T engine cross member (rare) Fuel pump and rubber lines upgraded to FI hose Surge tank or find Turbo Brat tank (very rare) Custom radiator/hose/fan setup. There is likely more that I'm forgetting..... This is not the project you want to undertake if you haven't worked much with Subaru's. It's not a simple bolt-in and it taxes the time and resources of established members here to do such things. If you don't have the time/money/tools/parts/people that some of the members here have - it will be even harder. Just a small example - there's an EJ swap into a Brat going on in my garage right now. The owner is doing most of the work with my guideance - it's not a turbo - it's just a plain 135 HP EJ22 mated to a 5 speed D/R. It's been in my garage over a month and I've done FI swaps into EA81's several times before so I have most of the process figured out. GD So what you are recommending is to put a ej22 or ej22T? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 (edited) So what you are recommending is to put a ej22 or ej22T? 22T's are rare and you run the same risks as the WRX swap - same amount of work really. They aren't much different - just a little less HP stock but it would be silly not to add a little larger turbo, intercooler, etc - then you are at or over the HP of the WRX engine. The 22T is larger and potentially more powerful. The regular 22 is a good engine choice - the 5 speed D/R can handle about that much power. More power and you will be looking for replacement's often. The 4 speed is junk and should be used as a boat anchor - they aren't even good with the stock engine. It's still a lot of work. The 5 speed required customized linkage and tranmission cross-member, and then you need the adaptor and drilled flywheel plus all the wireing, etc. My friend figures that he has spent over $1000 in parts to do this swap. Probably closer to $1500 to $2000. When you figure all the costs it adds up - little things get you like FI hoses, gaskets, maintenance items for the used engine, etc. It can be done cheaper for sure - but either that means you have a ton of parts on hand like me and some other members, or you have done it completely ghetto style and it won't be anything to be proud of let alone fun to drive or work on. GD Edited March 27, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naked Buell Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 22T's are rare and you run the same risks as the WRX swap - same amount of work really. They aren't much different - just a little less HP stock but it would be silly not to add a little larger turbo, intercooler, etc - then you are at or over the HP of the WRX engine. The 22T is larger and potentially more powerful. The regular 22 is a good engine choice - the 5 speed D/R can handle about that much power. More power and you will be looking for replacement's often. The 4 speed is junk and should be used as a boat anchor - they aren't even good with the stock engine. It's still a lot of work. The 5 speed required customized linkage and tranmission cross-member, and then you need the adaptor and drilled flywheel plus all the wireing, etc. My friend figures that he has spent over $1000 in parts to do this swap. Probably closer to $1500 to $2000. When you figure all the costs it adds up - little things get you like FI hoses, gaskets, maintenance items for the used engine, etc. It can be done cheaper for sure - but either that means you have a ton of parts on hand like me and some other members, or you have done it completely ghetto style and it won't be anything to be proud of let alone fun to drive or work on. GD Is the ej25 just as good as the ej22? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 earlier 2.2s from 90-96 models are the more reliable ones. leter models 2.5's often had head gasket issues around 150,000 miles if you want something relaiable and go from 85 hp to 135 then a normal ej22 would be the most practical and reliable option you can make the swap work with the 4spd trans for now, and then upgrade to a 5spd trans and carryover any bellhousing adapters to it the easiest way around having to make a bellhousing is to use an ej motor and its trans, but youwill have to modify driveshaft and trans mounts. you might be able to find a 5spd legacy or impreza for cheap, since having a complete donor car for a swap is the way to go vs sourcing parts individually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Is the ej25 just as good as the ej22? No, and they are more complex electrically. Though an EJ22 harness could run one with some modifications. They have head gasket issues at least up till the 2005's or so and evidence sugests that it may not be fixed yet - they just upgraded the head gaskets again for 2010. Early 2.5's suffer from piston slap and higher than normal rod bearing failure rates. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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