'86 BRAT No Start

[Seahag1978]

I had a small fire back before Christmas, once I put it out, seemed everything checked out and it was driving and starting with no issue. It sat for a few weeks and the temp dropped way down and when I tried to start it, nothing. I figured a frozen line and it sat.

 

The weather is warm now, I get no gas into the carb. I searched and have no idea what I'm looking at.

 

Those of you who remember me, know to talk to like I'm a 5 year old... don't assume I know where the fuel pump is, or if there are fusible inks that may have fried... Skip! Where are you??? He even sent me pictures and drawings of what to do!!! Is there another Skip here?

[GeneralDisorder]

First off - where was this fire located? Was it electrical or something else? Sounds like it might be related.

 

The fuel pump is under the Brat - right behind the driver's door behind the cab. Unfortunately you can't just check for voltage to the pump since they only run durring cranking, running, or for a few secconds when you first key-on the ignition. Thus you will have to check for voltage to the fuel pump while having someone crank the engine over with the key. You are just looking for 12 volts at the fuel pump - there are two pins at the connector - insert the two leads from your meter into the plug and check for 12v while it's turning over.

 

GD

[Seahag1978]

First off - where was this fire located? Was it electrical or something else? Sounds like it might be related.

 

The fuel pump is under the Brat - right behind the driver's door behind the cab. Unfortunately you can't just check for voltage to the pump since they only run durring cranking, running, or for a few secconds when you first key-on the ignition. Thus you will have to check for voltage to the fuel pump while having someone crank the engine over with the key. You are just looking for 12 volts at the fuel pump - there are two pins at the connector - insert the two leads from your meter into the plug and check for 12v while it's turning over.

 

GD

 

I had a push button start and it was so cold one day that the button housing broke off. I didn't realized it was stuck in the "on" position. I drove it a few blocks to the gas station and when I tried to turn it off, it wouldn't shut down. I then realized that the starter was cranking continuously. I left the station to drive home. About a block away, the car lost all power and shut down. I pulled over and had smoke, I popped the hood, grabbed the fire extinguisher and it was so cold, it gave me just enough of a blast to put out the fire. The car restarted normally and I drove home. I checked things, replaced the button and drove it for quite a while without incident.

[robm]

Likely burnt insulation on the main starter lead? Or perhaps some oily gunge started on fire from an overheated starter lead?

 

If it ran OK after that, the fire doesn't seem likely to be the problem. What could get burnt, then stop working a few weeks later? The best way to tell is to look for fire damage, and go from there. There is something there that will need replacing, at some point, even if it is not part of the problem right now.

 

I just thought of something that does fit the profile: cooked fuel hose that finally broke off?

[Seahag1978]

Likely burnt insulation on the main starter lead? Or perhaps some oily gunge started on fire from an overheated starter lead?

 

If it ran OK after that, the fire doesn't seem likely to be the problem. What could get burnt, then stop working a few weeks later? The best way to tell is to look for fire damage, and go from there. There is something there that will need replacing, at some point, even if it is not part of the problem right now.

 

I just thought of something that does fit the profile: cooked fuel hose that finally broke off?

 

If the fuel line broke, wouldn't it be pumping fuel into the engine bay that I would smell?

[robm]

You would think so, but maybe it sealed shut? Look at the damage, and see what happened. We can suggest stuff all day, you can see it right in front of you, the more info, the better the suggestions will be.

[ShawnW]

Check for broken wires coming out of the alternator?

[Markus56]

How sure are you that it is fuel?

 

here are some simple tests to find out. I don't know what you've done, or how skilled you are, no offense intended:-p. Here are the tests i use when I'm diagnosing why a car will not start.

 

 

i assume it turns over. Does it still have good compression? When it turns over does it turn over even? for example: DAH DAH DAH DAH. or does it go DAH DAH DU, DAH DAH DU.

 

If it sounds like the first "example" then the compression is good. The next step is to check for spark. Pull one of the spark plug wires and ground it to the engine by holding it an inch above the motor, away from the spark plug hole. have someone turn the motor over and check for a spark to jump from the plug to the engine.

 

 

If you have spark and compression, then it is an induction (air/fuel) problem.

Congratulations! you are a mechanic!

 

also check your fuses under the dash, and your fuseable links. Also check the wires where you had your fire.(you should do this first)

 

good luck!

Edited April 7, 2010 by Markus56

[Seahag1978]

Check for broken wires coming out of the alternator?

 

Hmmm... I know my battery terminal connectors are iffy. We're hoping that maybe it isn't getting enough juice?

 

It rolls over nice and runs with starting fluid or pouring gas directly into the carb.

 

The fuses in the box are all fine, where would the fusible links be located? I don't have a manual for this BRAT only the '78.

 

Not to worry, I won't get offended, like I said, talk to me like I'm 5 years old

[Markus56]

They should be in a black plastic box next to the ignition coil.

[TomRhere]

Well, if it runs with starting fluid, and/or pouring gas into the carb, it's definetly fuel related.

 

http://www.mikeshoup.com/docs/fsm/EA81/

 

Link to a FSM for an '83 Subaru. 90+% of the wiring is the same as your '86. I use that FSM for working on my '85. There's a few differences between the years, but it works for the most part doing repairs.

 

It should help in getting yours running again.

 

As GD said, need to check fuelpump. Is it getting power, does it run if you run hot wires to it from the battery?

 

There's a Fuel Pump Control Unit, (FPCU), located just above the hood release. It's about the size of a deck of cards. It runs the pump during starter cranking, and then senses output from the altenator to run pump while engine is running. It will not allow pump to run if the engine is not running with the key "on". Safety item there incase of accident. They do fail on occasion.

 

There is also a fuel shut-off on the carb, that may be the cause of your no start. It shuts the fuel off to keep engine from deiseling when you turn off the key.

 

You need to find out what wires were damaged in that fire, repair them as needed. One of them could have broke, and that could be the source of your problem.

[Seahag1978]

Thanks for all the responses and the link to the FSM and mikeshoup for putting it there!

 

I have a complete '84 parts BRAT, so I'm sure I have the part to fix it. Looks like I have enough information to make it work. I'll let you know what happens!

[Seahag1978]

The test with the volt meter proved there was power running to the pump so we changed it out with the pump from the parts BRAT. It started right up and immediately shot up to red-line!

 

We had a brutal winter and severe rain the past month, it was just sitting, so it seems there was something stuck at the carb, WD40 to the rescue! She starts and runs normal again.

 

I was very lucky the morning of the fire, adrenalin kicked in and I acted quickly, the fire extinguisher was behind my seat, but the real saving grace was that the HOOD RELEASE ACTUALLY WORKED ON THE FIRST PULL! LOL!

 

We checked all the wiring and hoses, there was no damage from the fire except to the starter itself. I do need to do some serious cleaning under there.

 

Thanks for all your help! You're the best!!!