$900 for clutch and labor?!

[zman111]

I don't know my way around under the hood very much (now I wish I knew a thing or two though). I have an 88 GL. I love it and have always loved subarus. My clutch went out and I took it to this place. He said the clutch was $280 plus labor. I know they only cost like $100 (right?) I called NAPA and thats what they said. He also said they sent the flywheel out to be resurfaced, replaced a couple seals in the back of the engine (i'm not sure what the names were, gasket? cam?) and they had to order this ball part where the fork sits on in the clutch and pushed through (I don't really know, just trying to remember what he said. he said he'd never seen that on a subaru) and put in a new clutch cable. he said the parts were $480 and labor was $400. I can't believe it! its not a turbo. I thought $550 maybe. Any input of what else might have cost so much. I'll find out tomorrow more details and let you guys know exactly what went on but I don't want to pay this until I find out. People like this guy and that makes me think he isn't trying to rip me off. The car sat there for two weeks though. It's frustrating. I briefly talked to him on the phone and he told me all this but I had to go. So any advise on what to say/ask would be great. thanks! you guys on here are awesome.

Edited April 5, 2010 by zman111

[NoahDL88]

flat rate labor times are standard, so the difference in price is usually due to different labor rates, between 80-120 dollars an hour.

 

If you go into Schmucks and buy a clutch kit you get it pretty cheap, but the Dealer/Mechanic wants to make money on parts too, so there is a markup there. If they replace or resurface the flywheel there is going to be between 50-150 dollars into that.

 

900 bucks for a clutch seems high, but not horrible.

 

If you agreed to it, you're liable, if stuff was done without your permission above and beyond the quote, you can ask them to return it to the condition it was in and not pay.

 

Separating thoughts into different paragraphs make it easier for the rest of us to understand what you're trying to say.

[GeneralDisorder]

I agree - that's high but not improbable considering what was done by the sounds of it. All those parts add up if you buy quality stuff - a clutch kit from the dealer is usually north of $200, flywheels have to be sent out for machining and that's delivery, pickup, and machine shop costs. Labor at most shops averages about $100 an hour - 4 hours labor is quite reasonable to pull an engine, replace seals and clutch, replace clutch cable and reinstall. In fact, to do it right I would charge more labor than that.

 

If none of that stuff beyond the clutch was cleared with you first (except the rear main - I would do that anyway since the labor is minimal and it can't be accessed without pulling the engine again - I would have done it without approval to prevent the clutch job being comprimised due to oil contamination) - then you have a greivance IMO. If anything beyond what a customer has asked be done and has been discussed previously is to be done then it should have been cleared with your first - at every step of the process.

 

GD

[bheinen74]

even though the price value of the cars is quite minimal, repair costs still have no regard to the cars value, the labor/parts, all cost something,

What we are finding on the 500 dollar old subarus, is the cost to keep them up is more than the value of the car as a whole. No biggie in my book, sure beats a few car payments.

[zman111]

Okay, I'm starting to feel a little better. The cable was talked about before hand as were the seals. I'm just in a little shocked at the price. I think he's only charging 70/h because when he originally said the price for JUST the labor on the clutch he had 3.8 hours and came up with $266 so thats $70/hour. There was a little extra labor afterward because of something with the clutch that they told me about. I'm not going to jump on the guy or anything like that. I'm just totally un-knowledgeable about this stuff so its hard to judge anything.

Paid $500 for the car and will pay to have it fixed when its not running but man that's a lot. I guess thats the price you pay when you have an older car and don't know how to fix it. I'll update tomorrow. Thanks for the comments.

Edited April 5, 2010 by zman111

[rxleone]

I agree - that's high but not improbable considering what was done by the sounds of it. All those parts add up if you buy quality stuff - a clutch kit from the dealer is usually north of $200, flywheels have to be sent out for machining and that's delivery, pickup, and machine shop costs. Labor at most shops averages about $100 an hour - 4 hours labor is quite reasonable to pull an engine, replace seals and clutch, replace clutch cable and reinstall. In fact, to do it right I would charge more labor than that.

 

If none of that stuff beyond the clutch was cleared with you first (except the rear main - I would do that anyway since the labor is minimal and it can't be accessed without pulling the engine again - I would have done it without approval to prevent the clutch job being comprimised due to oil contamination) - then you have a greivance IMO. If anything beyond what a customer has asked be done and has been discussed previously is to be done then it should have been cleared with your first - at every step of the process.

 

GD

 

What?? Are you serious? The average cost for labour in New Zealand by a Motor Trade Associated mechanic is about $60/hr. And we're at 70c to the US dollar.... Jesus.

[GeneralDisorder]

At the end of the day - unless you drive old cars AND work on them yourself - cars in general are expensive to own and operate. Doesn't matter which end you pay on - either you pay a loan off on something with a warantee, or you pay to have something that's inexpensive repaired and maintained. In both cases you are out a considerable amount of money. The trick to owning cars if you are not wealthy is to buy something that is super reliable or know how to repair and maintain anything that could break.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

What?? Are you serious? The average cost for labour in New Zealand by a Motor Trade Associated mechanic is about $60/hr. And we're at 70c to the US dollar.... Jesus.

 

Yep - absolutely serious. I charge $30 to $35 per hour from my garage. Cost of living and running a business is higher here. Only reason I can charge so little is because I haven't much overhead and no employees.

 

I know dealerships that charge $160+ an hour. The industrial machinery company I worked for until a few months ago ran $95 an hour for shop work and feild work was considerably more.

 

There are shops that charge less - some are good and some are not.

 

GD

[rxleone]

Yep - absolutely serious. I charge $30 to $35 per hour from my garage. Cost of living and running a business is higher here. Only reason I can charge so little is because I haven't much overhead and no employees.

 

I know dealerships that charge $160+ an hour. The industrial machinery company I worked for until a few months ago ran $95 an hour for shop work and feild work was considerably more.

 

There are shops that charge less - some are good and some are not.

 

GD

 

Maybe I should do an apprenticeship as a mechanic and move over

[Redcap]

I don't know my way around under the hood very much (now I wish I knew a thing or two though). I have an 88 GL. I love it and have always loved subarus. My clutch went out and I took it to this place. He said the clutch was $280 plus labor. I know they only cost like $100 (right?) I called NAPA and thats what they said. He also said they sent the flywheel out to be resurfaced, replaced a couple seals in the back of the engine (i'm not sure what the names were, gasket? cam?) and they had to order this ball part where the fork sits on in the clutch and pushed through (I don't really know, just trying to remember what he said. he said he'd never seen that on a subaru) and put in a new clutch cable. he said the parts were $480 and labor was $400. I can't believe it! its not a turbo. I thought $550 maybe. Any input of what else might have cost so much. I'll find out tomorrow more details and let you guys know exactly what went on but I don't want to pay this until I find out. People like this guy and that makes me think he isn't trying to rip me off. The car sat there for two weeks though. It's frustrating. I briefly talked to him on the phone and he told me all this but I had to go. So any advise on what to say/ask would be great. thanks! you guys on here are awesome.

 

It is a lot cheaper to do a clutch kit yourself...

[rxleone]

It is a lot cheaper to do a clutch kit yourself...

 

True. Do you have any friends or relatives that know a bit about cars? Subaru's have a few tricks, but all in all I've found them really easy to do a clutch on.

[Markus56]

Maybe I should do an apprenticeship as a mechanic and move over

 

That's what I'm doing. right now i am interning for free, but when summer starts i am going to another shop for a paid internship.

 

At the college run shop i work at currently, we charge $40 per hour with a mark-up on parts. I just did a timing belt, oil pump, water pump, seals, etc on a 97 outback and IIRC the total was around $900. Of course, i didn't get a dime of this, but that is college for you.

[mdjdc]

Automotive hourly rates are rediculous, period!!! I have no problem payoing the hourly rate, but when you combine that with "book" hours for the job it becomes highway robbery. I know that a good mechanic can do a job in far less time than the book states and yet they still charge the same for the job, Why not just charge for the hours you work on the car. I know mechanics that can do 16 hours worth of "book" hours in an eight hour day. Tell me that is fair.

 

By the way, do you live in Ashland Va? If you do, get in touch with me and I can help you with repairs and you can learn something about your car.

[rxleone]

Automotive hourly rates are rediculous, period!!! I have no problem payoing the hourly rate, but when you combine that with "book" hours for the job it becomes highway robbery. I know that a good mechanic can do a job in far less time than the book states and yet they still charge the same for the job, Why not just charge for the hours you work on the car. I know mechanics that can do 16 hours worth of "book" hours in an eight hour day. Tell me that is fair.

 

By the way, do you live in Ashland Va? If you do, get in touch with me and I can help you with repairs and you can learn something about your car.

 

I've never encountered a mechanic around here that does a flat rate charge, unless its some under-the-table after-hours work, which is usually dirt cheap and tax free Where do they get this book info? Is there some sort of universal time guide that tells you how long a particular job takes?

 

That's a ridiculous idea. Not only because of the risk of overcharging, but what happens if you're the mechanic and run into something unexpected (which is pretty much standard on any vehicle)?? Seems like a retarded way to charge to me.

[robm]

Usually, the book time is pretty generous, but sometimes it isn't. Then, they get creative in charging for "extras." Like the time I had the starter contacts on an AWD Toyota Corolla changed. The book time to R&R the starter was 45 minutes, and replacing the contacts is a 20 minute job, according to a friend who was a dealer Toyota tech. There was no book time to rebuild the starter, the book is more geared for replacing rather than repairing parts. I let the shop do it, as I had spent 45 minutes looking for the starter, and never did find it! Final charge was for 2.5 hours of labour, with R&R and rebuild all lumped together. An hour and 45 minutes to rebuild the starter? Not likely!

 

Real time to R&R the starter: 2 hours

Real time to rebuild: 0.5 hours.

[bheinen74]

some places charge about 900 for spark plug replacements on a certain GM van..........true......

[2.5_IMP]

This thread is a good reminder to get an estimate on paper, and to make it clear to the service advisor/mechanic that if the cost of repairs is somehow going be significantly higher than the estimate, to give you a call and get your permission before they continue.

[asis]

Maybe I should do an apprenticeship as a mechanic and move over

 

Ehhh?!?! those are "shop rates" not mechanics wages

 

I don't think that is an astronomical price by any means especially if you just thumbed through a phone book and picked the first shop that would see you within an acceptable amount of time AND even work on that old of a vehicle.

 

The book hours are as much of a consumer protection as they are a "standard". They usually are built in with fudge factor and in the end it should be up to the mechanic to determine if the book hours are acceptable for the condition of the vehicle. Unforeseen issues/labor involving the work discussed, should not cost the customer any more than agreed to. If issues are found during that work that may need addressed, then it should be cleared with the customer prior to parts or labor being charged in addition to the original agreement.

 

I charge the same rates as GD mentioned for repairing outdoor power equipment. I can only do that because I am just helping out neighbors but when I did run it as a business, the cost of keeping it a "business" was 10 to 15 bux/hr.

 

Damn ya'll got me sounding like a Lawyer er sumin'

[asis]

This thread is a good reminder to get an estimate on paper, and to make it clear to the service advisor/mechanic that if the cost of repairs is somehow going be significantly higher than the estimate, to give you a call and get your permission before they continue.

 

YEP! In case the post I typed while you posted missed it's point

[xbeerd]

around here i would expect about a $900 bill to get a clutch changed out. To MOST people changing a clutch and pulling an engine to do so is a HUGE deal, so some places put a high price on it because people expect it to be expensive.

 

I had a wheel bearing changed out on our 00 outback last year to the tune of $570. i thought THAT was high.

 

Same guy wanted $136 to change a outter tie rod end and then $70 for an alignment. which i didnt think was unreasonable. however i changed the end myself ($40 part) didnt move the adjustment nut since the end going on was the exact same part as i was taking off. car goes straight. yay!

[NoahDL88]

I know mechanics that can do 16 hours worth of "book" hours in an eight hour day. Tell me that is fair.

 

 

Can you do it in 8 hours?

 

Did you spend good money on an education to learn how to fix cars?

 

Have you taken the time to get certified by your local state and or ASE chapter?

 

Have you taken the extra classes provided by dealerships to make damn sure that when someone comes in with a car that you are trained to fix it and not taking a shot in the dark?

 

Have you spent between 5 and 15 thousand dollars on tools out of your own pocket?

 

Did you spend extra money on tools that are specialized so that you can complete the 16 hour job in 8?

 

 

Mechanics are a bargain considering what you get for your money.

[GeneralDisorder]

"book" time is a guideline. It protects the consumer from fraudelent repair pricing and protects them against mechanic's doing a shoddy job - since they WILL get at least the hours listed in the book to complete the job. Usually they are slightly more than the job *could* take if everything goes well. Rusty bolts, unexpected broken parts..... these can add hours to a job - sometimes even going over the book rate. By using the book rate there aren't as many "unknowns" for the consumer - they know the price before they ever surrender the keys. And if anything comes up that will change said price then it should be discussed.

 

Note that they don't charge you when the car is sitting there without anything being done to it - mechanics are charging you only for the hours they actually work on the car - not while they are standing around waiting for a part, waiting for the go-ahead from you to proceed on something, or just waiting for management to decide how to handle something. Every time a mechanic has to "switch jobs" because he's waiting on parts or clarification there's is about an hour to clean up, and setup for a different job. Then there's the half-hour before lunch cleanup, and the hour before closing shop cleanup - none of which can be charged to a job. Some of the fudge factor in the book time is eaten up with these tasks - because management doesn't want to see unbillable time on your time card.

 

GD

[mdjdc]

Sorry if I ruffled some feathers, but I feel that if one is going to charge 80-160 per hour I should be charged for the time spent actually doing the job. My best friend is a full time mechanic and he doesn't even feel that the book is fair and gives his customers a break when figuring out costs.

 

I have 10 years education as a doctor and I have all sorts of regulations imposed on me by state regulators and the insurance industry. My overhead is enormous, and I rarely get paid what I charge on a normal basis. So, let's not get into an arguement on that side of the equation.

 

I feel that a fair price for a good job is just good business, but when you get paid double than the hourly rate for the job, someone is getting thee short end of the stick.

 

I realize that dealerships are bad, but I think independants should be fair about their fees.

 

I really don't want to get anyone upset, so I will let the arguement go from here.

[asis]

Sorry if I ruffled some feathers, but I feel that if one is going to charge 80-160 per hour I should be charged for the time spent actually doing the job. My best friend is a full time mechanic and he doesn't even feel that the book is fair and gives his customers a break when figuring out costs.

 

I have 10 years education as a doctor and I have all sorts of regulations imposed on me by state regulators and the insurance industry. My overhead is enormous, and I rarely get paid what I charge on a normal basis. So, let's not get into an arguement on that side of the equation.

 

I feel that a fair price for a good job is just good business, but when you get paid double than the hourly rate for the job, someone is getting thee short end of the stick.

 

I realize that dealerships are bad, but I think independants should be fair about their fees.

 

I really don't want to get anyone upset, so I will let the arguement go from here.

 

Not sure about your stance but, I aint got no feathers so

 

As far as Independents, you might consider some things as a mechanic, that you might not as a doctor....

If you are a doctor or mech...most likely you also have the equipment/tools to perform the duties. Do you need band aids, disinfectant stethoscope, knowledge, experience, training...

 

You may not have to drive to the local parts store for parts, pay shipping and tax, gas to get there and back, and account for your time, but private mechs do or they pay or luckily, break even. Parts research alone can get quite involved and consume hours to make sure it IS the right part, AND is necessary. Just wait for two weeks for a part, then find the one sent is not right....

 

I would offer a dare to any first timer to track their hours, trips, milage, incidentals, fluids, chemicals, tools, etc. and then tell a mech who has all of it already, and charges only 35/hr, that they are being unreasonable. Double that for minimum if they are a legit tax paying business, and triple it if they have a franchise name.

[GeneralDisorder]

I feel that a fair price for a good job is just good business, but when you get paid double than the hourly rate for the job, someone is getting thee short end of the stick.

 

It simply can't work that way for our industry. Here's why:

 

1. When I give a price quote, I'm expected to meet that quote or very near to it with only a cursory examination of the vehicle. A customer will absolutely LOSE THEIR $HIT if you come in at double your quote without a very good explanation. Unlike the medical feild where no one has any idea what something will cost or how long it will take - that's expected and not only that but you have access to tens of millions of dollars of sophisticated diagnostic equipment that you don't even have to pay for - you just send the job out to a lab and it's up to the customer to walk it there and walk it back...... and at the end of the day - if you fail you still get payed. I can't tell a customer "sorry - them's the breaks pal" when the part I just replaced falls out on the freeway.

 

2. The price you pay to a mechanic for a specific job has to be basically the same for every similar car. The average citizen doesn't understand why his Honda Accord's clutch job took longer because of seized bolts, rust, etc than his neighbor's Accord of the same year. Regardless of what you tell them "happened" you will almost surely lose them as a customer if they pay double what some other guy paid. Consequently - everyone pays the same high price and if your car is a mechanic's dream to work on - well maybe you should have done the job yourself because it's not going to matter when it comes times to charge you. There HAS to be built in buffer's for labor estimates and people HAVE to pay similar amounts for similar jobs - that is all part "stroking the customer's image" of the business. You have to make them like you because in our industry nearly every customer walks through the door not trusting you. Unlike the medical feild where differences of cost between similar ailments are never discussed, and never questioned outside of the insurance industry. People simply don't discuss what it cost to have their personal medical requirements fulfilled - they know it wouldn't be comparable because it's common sense that every person is different - it is not at all common sense to the layman that every car is not the same. To them - they came off the same assembly line and thus should be little clones of each other.

 

GD