timing belt replacement

[tractor pole]

I have a 91 loyale and I have some noisy lifters and I am going to replace the oil pump seals to try and remedy the problem, so I am also going to replace the water pump, t-stat and the timing belts as well.

 

do I really need to replace the idler pulley along with the tensioners?

the car has 165k miles on it I am unsure of the condition of the belts and tensioners and idler pulley, not sure if the idler pulley is a critical wear part or should I just replace it so I don't have to worry about it?

 

what say you guys?

anything else I am forgetting

 

thanks in advance

Ben

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes - the cogged idler pulley is the one I have seen fail the most out of the three. I wouldn't even consider replacing only the belts - I always do the belts, tensioners, idler, water pump, front main and cam seals. It's cheap insurance and if you do it every time you do the belts you can feel good about using the aftermarket set's off ebay - they are unlikely to be of the same quality as the OEM parts - but they are also unlikely to fail in only 50k miles. It makes sense from a cost/benefit point of veiw.

 

Also - you should give some thought to pulling off the timing belt covers and leaving them off. This way if the belt break it takes about 20 minutes to replace them and they are open and accesible for inspection and routine tensioner adjustment. Lots of folks around here do it including myself and I haven't had an issue yet. Though there is always the potential for something to get caught in the belts.

 

GD

[TheLoyale]

I run coverless aswell, and proud of it. Makes checking belt tension very easy like GD said. just keep rags away from the running engine

 

PS: Make sure you replace the small hose on top of the waterpump which goes to the heater core pipe running under the intake. Also replace the O-ring on the water pipe for the waterpump, (What the lower Radiator hose connects to)

 

Cheers

-Tom

[tractor pole]

Yes - the cogged idler pulley is the one I have seen fail the most out of the three. I wouldn't even consider replacing only the belts - I always do the belts, tensioners, idler, water pump, front main and cam seals. It's cheap insurance and if you do it every time you do the belts you can feel good about using the aftermarket set's off ebay - they are unlikely to be of the same quality as the OEM parts - but they are also unlikely to fail in only 50k miles. It makes sense from a cost/benefit point of veiw.

 

Also - you should give some thought to pulling off the timing belt covers and leaving them off. This way if the belt break it takes about 20 minutes to replace them and they are open and accesible for inspection and routine tensioner adjustment. Lots of folks around here do it including myself and I haven't had an issue yet. Though there is always the potential for something to get caught in the belts.

 

GD

thanks, after I posted that I thought that I would probably regret not replacing everything at once. good call on removing the timing cover I did that on a couple of vw rabbits I owned much easier to adjust the cam gear. ordering my parts shortly, just pulled some codes to see why the CEL has been staring me in the face for a couple days. it will be ready for driving daily soon, and I can give my truck a rest for a while.

[tractor pole]

I run coverless aswell, and proud of it. Makes checking belt tension very easy like GD said. just keep rags away from the running engine

 

PS: Make sure you replace the small hose on top of the waterpump which goes to the heater core pipe running under the intake. Also replace the O-ring on the water pipe for the waterpump, (What the lower Radiator hose connects to)

 

Cheers

-Tom

 

thanks for the advice on the hose and o-ring wouldn't want that to go after I put it all back together.

[MilesFox]

original belts can last 135-145,000 miles. with your mileage its likely the belts have been done before.

 

assuming the belts were done, the water pump should have been done too. it wouldnt hurt to remove the belts and inspect them and the seals. you might get away with just replacing a few things.

 

the idlers and tensioners should roll smoothly, and have a smooth rolling resistance. if they sound like skateboard wheels, its time to replace them.

 

just get a good look at everything. i have a car where the previous owner had the timing belt and water pump replaced, but all the front end seals were leaking allover the belt, because they did not do the seals when the belt was installed.

 

oh, btw, i am an advocate of running naked belts. i have had to do belts on the side of the road, and open covers made my day by making the repair with 2 tools (12mm deep socket and 3/8 ratchet, and a 22mm wrench) and 15 min of downtime

Edited April 8, 2010 by MilesFox

[TheLoyale]

If you are to replace the seals, the seals you are looking to replace are:

 

Seal and O-ring for the Cam carriers (Behind the cam sprockets)

Crank Seal (Take off the crank pulley and the two crank gears which the timing belts grab. The seal will then be behind that.)

 

Also, on the new waterpump and oil pump gaskets you can apply some Red RTV where the gasket meets the engine block just for added protection - plus it helps keep the gasket where you want.

 

And the small hose I was talking about will be right under the A/C pump (you will need to remove that to get to the upper hose clamp.

 

Just some added tips and pointers.

[tractor pole]

original belts can last 135-145,000 miles. with your mileage its likely the belts have been done before.

 

assuming the belts were done, the water pump should have been done too. it wouldnt hurt to remove the belts and inspect them and the seals. you might get away with just replacing a few things.

 

the idlers and tensioners should roll smoothly, and have a smooth rolling resistance. if they sound like skateboard wheels, its time to replace them.

 

just get a good look at everything. i have a car where the previous owner had the timing belt and water pump replaced, but all the front end seals were leaking allover the belt, because they did not do the seals when the belt was installed.

 

oh, btw, i am an advocate of running naked belts. i have had to do belts on the side of the road, and open covers made my day by making the repair with 2 tools (12mm deep socket and 3/8 ratchet, and a 22mm wrench) and 15 min of downtime

 

judging from the last two owners, I am friends with them, that is not likely. I have been fixing things here and there that they took short cuts on.

 

If you are to replace the seals, the seals you are looking to replace are:

 

Seal and O-ring for the Cam carriers (Behind the cam sprockets)

Crank Seal (Take off the crank pulley and the two crank gears which the timing belts grab. The seal will then be behind that.)

 

Also, on the new waterpump and oil pump gaskets you can apply some Red RTV where the gasket meets the engine block just for added protection - plus it helps keep the gasket where you want.

 

And the small hose I was talking about will be right under the A/C pump (you will need to remove that to get to the upper hose clamp.

 

Just some added tips and pointers.

 

already planned on replacing the cam seals and crank seal. dp you apply the red rtv to the mickey mouse o-ring?

[GeneralDisorder]

Don't use any RTV on the mickey o-ring. Hardened RTV can clog oil passages and it should not be used around them. There are types of RTV that would be safe for this - Three-Bond makes some, or you could use anearobic flange sealant (very small amount) like Loctite 518, etc.

 

GD

[ivantruckman]

I run coverless aswell, and proud of it. Makes checking belt tension very easy like GD said. just keep rags away from the running engine

 

+1 Go Naked

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-1994-Subaru-1-8-GL-DL-Loyale-Timing-Belt-Kit-EA82_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem563b38f09bQQitemZ370360774811QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Edited April 8, 2010 by ivantruckman

[TheLoyale]

Whoops! No, do not use RTV on the mickey mouse seal.. Sorry for not making a space between the two. you can use a dab of bearing grease to hold the Mickey seal in place if needed..

 

Sorry for the confusion.

[tractor pole]

Don't use any RTV on the mickey o-ring. Hardened RTV can clog oil passages and it should not be used around them. There are types of RTV that would be safe for this - Three-Bond makes some, or you could use anearobic flange sealant (very small amount) like Loctite 518, etc.

 

GD

I will not be using any rty on the o-ring seal.

 

Whoops! No, do not use RTV on the mickey mouse seal.. Sorry for not making a space between the two. you can use a dab of bearing grease to hold the Mickey seal in place if needed..

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

that's why I was questioning it... didn't make sense.

 

thanks for the input guys.

[Sitkum]

How hard is it to get the vehicle back into time? It is obviously not like the top dead center point vehicles that i am familiar with timing. I want to know how involved it is and make sure i feel confident in the process before i tear into it.

 

I am thinking about replacing my belts now at 137,000. The car Loyale 90 runs great right now so i dont want to mess it up. Regular 27-29 mpg, good power etc. I am going out on a long road trip, i have time now and i dont want to worry about it 2500 miles into a trip. I suppose i could just pull the covers and see how the belts look? any suggestions about what to look for as well in the belt other than the standard (cracks and abrasions).

[GeneralDisorder]

Belt appearance won't tell you much.

 

Timing the engine is very easy. There are three marks on the flywheel - you line up the center of the three. Then the driver's side cam mark points up (12 o-clock) while the passenger side points down (6 o-clock). The belt is installed and then the engine is turned over till you hit the compression stroke of the #1 cylinder (passenger side front) and then roll the flywheel to 20 degree's BTDC and the distributor is installed so the rotor points at the #1 plug wire tower. Engine is started and final timing adjusment is done with a light.

 

GD

[Sitkum]

Thanks, That sounds easy enough. Hopefully my covers will be reasonably easy to remove. Any suggestions in regard to this are welcome - never done it before, although i assume it is fairly self explanatory although more info is always better.