Why Subaru...sorry.

[AlanS]

Listen, Subaru. Why Subaru? And which one?

I have always had Volvos and the one Mercedes. Checking the Volvos, they ain't what they used to be. All the post 2000 Volvos have very poor reliability and seem to rely on the old badge to sell cars. Thus, I am headed elsewhere. There seems to be a real loyalty in the Subaru crowd. But I have concerns: We are long term owners...we use a car until it dies. My 1989 Benz has close to 300,000 on the clock and the wife's 1995 Volvo has 200,000+ on it. My Benz doesn't have a rattle and is rock solid...BUT, the cam is worn and there is an engine leak ($3000), and I don't want to toss $$$ into an engine that old. Wife's car has a defective heater core / A/C condenser ($1,5000- it's located behind the dash....the entire dash...the ENTIRE dash has to be removed to replace the A/C and heater core). But the two cars are virtually rust free and solid. They have served us well. Top notch cars to begin with, and it paid off in the end.

What kind of long term reliability can one expect from the Subaru?

I will assume that I would get the Outback, - I like the size, cargo area. The 4 cylinder to keep fuel cost lower.

Any general thoughts?

Sorry for the rambling, I am not proof reading this, just typing what comes to mind.

[86subaru]

buy a 95-97 with a 2.2 subaru , will last well over 200,000mi , i own 3 subaru;s 97, 97, 2000

[eppoh]

If you are looking for a wagon, the Subaru is the way to go. I own 3 and am pretty satisfied with them, However, they are older with 2.2l engines. There are lots of complaints about the 2.5's that I am not sure have been resolved to this day.

 

I also have an older Honda that is bullet proof. To be honest, if they still made a wagon,. I would buy one. I live in the south and don't need the extra expense of all wheel drive. Subaru makes a FWD version, just not for US consumption. It is a marketing thing.

 

Just my opinion. YMMV

[GeneralDisorder]

There's a lot of reasons that people are loyale to the brand... some that come to mind:

 

1. Really simple to work on - this is one of the big one's for me. The engine layout is not transverse - thus under the hood (especially the older one's) looks like under the hood of an old Chevy truck. All accesories, belts, etc are easily accessed. They are 100% symetrical down the center of the car - thus an axle from the left also fits the right.... etc. It also makes weight distribution very good and improves handling as there is little to no torque steer.

 

2. Reliability.... generally speaking you can expect a Subaru 4 cylinder boxer to run without any major internal failures for 300k+. I just pulled a part from a car at my local junk yard with 355k on it. It was a '95 or '96 Legacy. There are of course exceptions to every rule and note that I said "major internal failure" - head gaskets have been an issue on some engines for the last 10 years or so. They recently annouced they would be going to the MLM gaskets (turbo style) for all their engines starting in 2010 - that gives hope that head gasket leaking will once again be almost unheard of as it was on the EJ22's of the 90's. Transmisssions are typically very durrable. If the maintenence is done regularly you can expect a LOT of miles from a Subaru. It's commonly said that at 100k they are only just broken in. I have personally torn down 1980's Subaru engines with over 250k miles on them to find the factory cylinder cross-hatching still visible.

 

3. Economy. The get decent mileage for what they offer (AWD) and the parts are cheap and plentiful. Unlike Volvo or Mercedes, the parts priceing even at the dealer is very reasonable. Even many of us that do our own work buy our parts through our local dealer as the price is very competitive.

 

4. AWD is what brings a lot of people back. Subaru uses basically the same AWD layout as Audi - they are great in all conditions and have been the official car of the US Ski Team for years.

 

Subaru started their car line with German technology. They bought the rights to the Lloyd designs in the mid 1960's. Ultimately they still use this layout - everything has been redesigned at this point, but the engine/transmission layout is what brings a lot of folks back again and again. It just makes sense from an engineering standpoint - I couldn't possibly own another front-wheel-drive transverse style layout automobile. I couldn't stand it.

 

As for pulling the dash to replace a heater core - that's pretty much the case with all cars and has been for decades. Even American cars are this way. The only thing I can even think of that is not is my '69 GMC pickup - the heater core was almost an afterthought and it's in a box attached to the firewall. But in that truck you could just build a bonfire under the hood next to the battery tray and hire an immigrant to fan it towards the cab . Pretty sure the hood would still close even

 

GD

Edited April 14, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[bheinen74]

if you like the Benz with 300k on it, then look for another one same model year etc with less than 100k on it. You know what you got out of yours, and you can use yours for a parts car for the one with 100k on it

 

pay the premium to get one with low miles.

[EVOthis]

As mentioned Subarus EJ22 in the first and second gen Legacies and Imprezas are a phenomenal engine...If your lucky you can find an early outback with a 2.2 However it will be a 5 spd...Not to sure which you prefer automatic vs standard. The other Subaru I would recommend is a WRX wagon...Room to haul, AWD obviously and a little pep when you need it plus the decent fuel economy. I will say this, if you do decide to go this route find one that hasn't been modified in any way or beat to all hell ( it might be difficult to find lol). I have seen some of these WRX's with over 200k on them with the original turbo and all...Good luck in your search...I will say this, personally I would wait for the CVT to get good and worn in for a few years in these newer flat 4's before I would purchase one...

[ericem]

Don't feel you need to look at an older subie to get something reliable. All the new stuff is pretty decent. Only doubt is cvt transmission and electronic parking brake.

[idosubaru]

the H6 might be an option, they are excellent in terms of reliability. not sure what the ratings are but the 4 cylinder automatic heavy 4WD OBW's might not be that fantastic of a trade off. my last tank in my H6 was 24 mpg. the 4 cylinder will need timing belts at 100,000 and 200,000, at $700 dealer cost, including probably some pulleys, tensioner, etc. the H6, having a timing chain instead of belt, can make 200,000 miles with none of that maintenance. so as far as costs go - the H6 has some advantages that way.

 

i think most foreign companies have not improved reliability much in 20 years, my personal opinion is they have gone backwards in some ways and forward in others. it's a trade off for other things, but for bottom line cheap reliability subaru has lost ground.

 

best bet at a high mileage is to get one new or get a one owner, well maintained vehicle. 200,000 miles is easily expected out of nearly any of their products though.

[canalligators]

I'm one step ahead of you. Just sold my '94 965 with 210K miles. I was thinking about all the pricey stuff that hadn't failed yet and decided to change vehicles. Cars are generally more durable than they used to be, but this old car was on its original alternator, steering gear, rear suspension bits, universal joints, etc.

 

The wife is still driving (happily) a '99 S70, 160K mi. I really like that car. It has excellent controls and is great in the snow. That said, I'm looking forward to checking out my new Subaru with four high-performance snow tires.

 

I don't usually buy new, but the 2010 Outback met a particular size requirement I have and pre-2010 did not. We also drive cars to high mileage. I was glad to learn that all new models have the upgraded head gaskets. Ours is a 4-cyllinder, manual shift.

 

I was pleased at the accessibility of things for repairs. I was amazed at the room around the front transaxil. I bet changing a clutch is relatively easy (but probably not as easy as it was on my '85 Saab).

 

All that said, ask me in about 180K miles/300K km and I'll let you know if it worked out. The vehicle has big shoes to fill.

 

BTW, replacing the heater core in my 240 was an all day job.

[Twitch de la Brat]

Well, build quality, design, 4WD/AWD, and their inherent quirkyness

I personally like anything pre 96.

They are all non-interference engines and are very reliable.

 

If you are looking for comfort, I highly recommend the first gen legacies, or a

96 outback if you're looking for an Outback.

A few of those have 2.2L non-interference engine.

 

If you're willing to live in a more spartan environment, then I would greatly encourage you to get an EA81 car.

They rattle, shake, and are overall underpowered for the freeway, but you

can't beat the lack of timing belts, or the easy upgrading.

 

Twitch

[mikec03]

It's apparent that most of the replies arn't to the point. AlanS clearly intends to buy a new car! So the the question is: Can he expect the '10 Lagacy [2.5l]to run over 200K miles without major maintance?

 

I think so. The main problem for the last 10 years has been a leaking head gasket. And even in that case, it didn't fail catastrophically. In the words of one mechanic, "it's just a bump in the road to 300K miles." So I think it's a reasonable chance, especially since Subaru has reinforced the cylinder wall and put in the multi-layed head gasket for '10.

 

I would buy one myself if I wasn't cheap and didn't already own a couple 2.2l Subaru's.

[etc]

There's a lot of reasons that people are loyale to the brand... some that come to mind:

 

1. Really simple to work on - this is one of the big one's for me. The engine layout is not transverse - thus under the hood (especially the older one's) looks like under the hood of an old Chevy truck. All accesories, belts, etc are easily accessed. They are 100% symetrical down the center of the car - thus an axle from the left also fits the right.... etc. It also makes weight distribution very good and improves handling as there is little to no torque steer.

 

 

GD

 

+1 to that.

[MorganM]

GD points out some good reasons. For the money spent you could easily get a number of other quality cars. I think you really have to drive one to understand why people love them and keep buying Subarus.

 

My own experience, I just love them for what they are. Every Subaru (besides the Justy!) I've sat in I thought "wow, this is a neat car!" With my old '88 GL I couldn't belive all of the options it had for an '88 station wagon. The BRAT and old EA81 hatchbacks are just a freak'n sweet vehicles. Sitting in an XT you feel like you're in a space ship of the future and the XT6 is a space ship with an H6. The Outback was "the worlds first sport utility wagon" - Paul Hogan Impreza STi is an all out rally car, turbo, AWD, driver controled center diff, etc. etc. OK... they even built the Justy RS which wasn't quite as lame (5spd with push button 4WD). Forester is a nice wagon with plenty of room.

 

I say go drive some new ones and see if something clicks in you saying "Ya know... I really like this car."

Edited April 20, 2010 by MorganM

[StructEngineer]

I think you'll get a better feel for reliability by scrolling through thread subjects on message boards of various makes. I frequent another message board and its a completely different atmosphere and types of problems....gives a better feel than a few individual opinions. There people mainly ask about how to make more power..... here I feel a lot of posts stem from poor quality in the last decade.

[GeneralDisorder]

This guy is long gone - he posted ONE time. Probably should just let it die now.

 

GD