Steering issue on 98 Legacy Outback

[ldkenned]

Wanted to get some opinions from you guys on what could be wrong.

 

When I turn, the car shudders and makes some squeaky-type noises. I replaced the CV axles about a year ago, so i am pretty sure those are ok. Me and my friend (who knows more about car repair than I do) took off the outer tie rods last night. The boots on the inner rods are completely cracked, and the outer boots aren't much better.

 

Would replacing the tie rods fix the shuddering problem? Would I need to replace both the inner and outer or just one? Could it be something else?

[idosubaru]

sounds like torque bind. use the search function and read up about torque bind. how to tell, what it is, how to diagnose, and how to possibly fix. very common and covered in great detail here.

 

if you're tires are at all mismatching...even if one is more warn than the others, that's enough to cause torque bind on a 4WD vehicle. if it is torque bind you should also peruse the owners manual section detailing proper care of a true 4WD vehicle to avoid future issues.

[Fairtax4me]

Does it do this while the car is sitting still?

[94Loyale]

Hopefully when your friend removed your tierod ends, he marked where they were with paint. Otherwise, you might as well schedule an alignment. You said the inner tie rod boots were all cracked up. Is the rack leaking? And, as asked already, is this sitting still or moving? And is it only a certain spot in the steering that makes the sound, or the entire turning range?

[ldkenned]

Forgot to check this over the weekend!

 

A mechanic friend of mine checked it out and he suggested putting the fuse in to make it FWD. This fixed the problem (temporarily at least). He thinks its a problem with the rear differential, where the two plates don't slide over each other smoothly anymore, especially in tight turns where one wheel wants to turn a lot more than the other. It could be as simple as the diff fluid being low.

 

I will be checking the fluid level tonight. I would have done it earlier, but I broke my socket wrench replacing the CV axles.

 

Is it bad to drive the car in FWD for long periods of time? I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere in the owners manual or the Haynes manual.

[WoodsWagon]

The rear differential has nothing to do with torque bind, you can change fluid and replace rear differentials untill you're blue in the face and it won't change at thing.

 

The center clutch pack is where the problem is. It's a computer controlled, hydraulicly actuated clutch pack that sends power to the rear driveshaft. If the binding went away when you put the FWD fuse in, that's a good sign.

 

What that tells you is that the clutch pack is still working, it engages and disengages, but it's sticky. That's what gives you the chatter and bind. The solution is to drain the automatic transmission fluid, fill it back up, drive it, drain it, fill it, and drive it for 3 drain and fill cycles. That will get most of the old fluid out and fresh fluid in. The transmission pan has a drain plug, 17mm head on it I belive, and you fill through the dipstick, which is on the drivers side of the car, next to the brake booster. It can be hidden a bit by the heater hoses. It's around 3qts per drain and fill, measure how much you drained out, and pour the same amount of fresh back in. The level has to be checked with the transmission warmed up and running in park.

[Rooster2]

The rear differential has nothing to do with torque bind, you can change fluid and replace rear differentials untill you're blue in the face and it won't change at thing.

 

The center clutch pack is where the problem is. It's a computer controlled, hydraulicly actuated clutch pack that sends power to the rear driveshaft. If the binding went away when you put the FWD fuse in, that's a good sign.

 

What that tells you is that the clutch pack is still working, it engages and disengages, but it's sticky. That's what gives you the chatter and bind. The solution is to drain the automatic transmission fluid, fill it back up, drive it, drain it, fill it, and drive it for 3 drain and fill cycles. That will get most of the old fluid out and fresh fluid in. The transmission pan has a drain plug, 17mm head on it I belive, and you fill through the dipstick, which is on the drivers side of the car, next to the brake booster. It can be hidden a bit by the heater hoses. It's around 3qts per drain and fill, measure how much you drained out, and pour the same amount of fresh back in. The level has to be checked with the transmission warmed up and running in park.

 

 

All above is good advise. The trany drain yields about 4 and a half quarts in my estimation. I would suggest adding a pint size can of Trans-X after the third drain. Also, the trany dip stick measurement level from L to H is only about a pint quantity. It is good to know this, so you can avoid over filling.

[ldkenned]

Thanks guys!

 

I checked the transmission fluid last night and the dipstick was bone dry. I should have been checking the fluids myself on a routine basis. (I was assuming that the oil change guys were checking everything).

 

I plan to fill it up now, and should I still do the drain/fill cycle that Loyale suggested?

 

We also discovered yet another problem last night when changing the oil. We pulled the drain plug and it came out really fast, as normal. The manual says to put in 4.8 qts, but when we put in less than 4 and checked it, it was waaaay above full. He thought he had put too much in, so he went to drain it, but when he pulled the plug again, only slightly more than a trickle came out. In other words, the oil is not getting down into the pan.

 

I assume this means some of the oil orifices somewhere are plugged up with who knows what? Suggestions?

 

Thanks again!

[WoodsWagon]

There a 2 dipsticks on the transmission, the one on the passenger side, that's bright yellow and has a finger loop and a 6" long solid rod dipstick is for the front differential. That takes 90wt gear oil. The red one on the drivers side, which is a long blade dipstick, is for the transmission and takes Dextron/MerconIII regular ATF. On the bottom of the transmission, the 17mm head drainbolt on the sheetmetal pan drains the transmisson, the 21 or so MM plug that threads into cast aluminum right by the front crossmember drains the front differential.

 

Many a subaru transmission has been killed by people draining the wrong oil compartment and pouring the fresh oil into the wrong compartment, leaving one section dry and the other overfilled with the wrong fluid.

[Fairtax4me]

I hope you didn't drive it after that.

 

Now you'll have to drain both the front diff and the transmission, and refill with the proper fluids, in the proper places.

 

Never ever assume the people at those oil change places will check everything, or even make sure that new oil actually gets put in the engine. I have heard many horror stories about people driving away from those places and making it half a mile down the road before the engine locks up. How they even made it out of the parking lot with the engine screaming absolute bloody murder, is beyond me.

[EVOthis]

I hope you didn't drive it after that.

 

Now you'll have to drain both the front diff and the transmission, and refill with the proper fluids, in the proper places.

 

Never ever assume the people at those oil change places will check everything, or even make sure that new oil actually gets put in the engine. I have heard many horror stories about people driving away from those places and making it half a mile down the road before the engine locks up. How they even made it out of the parking lot with the engine screaming absolute bloody murder, is beyond me.

 

 

+1 I had a customer the other day on there 05 Outback, they went to walmart to get there oil change done and I throw the car in the air and the "lube tech" at walmart pulled off the trans filter instead of the oil filter, WHEN THERE IS A COVER THERE THAT SAYS OIL AND FILTER ACCESS!..DUH

[Fairtax4me]

You don't honestly expect them to be able to read do you? Or possibly know the difference between a transmission and an engine?

 

So I guess they also probably threw away or destroyed the trans filter before finding out that the engine oil filter they tried to replace it with wouldn't fit?

[ldkenned]

Thanks again guys. Gonna create a new thread about the oil issue I mentioned:

 

"We also discovered yet another problem last night when changing the oil. We pulled the drain plug and it came out really fast, as normal. The manual says to put in 4.8 qts, but when we put in less than 4 and checked it, it was waaaay above full. He thought he had put too much in, so he went to drain it, but when he pulled the plug again, only slightly more than a trickle came out. In other words, the oil is not getting down into the pan."