Oil not draining down into oil pan? 98 Legacy Outback

[ldkenned]

Had posted previously about another problem, which is hopefully fixed, but I discovered a new problem:

 

A friend and I were changing the oil and when we pulled the drain plug and it came out really fast, as normal. The manual says to put in 4.8 qts, but when we put in less than 4 and checked it, it was waaaay above full. My friend thought he had put too much in, so he went to drain it, but when he pulled the plug again, only slightly more than a trickle came out. In other words, the oil is not getting down into the pan. I have been checking the oil once a day or so since then and every time I check it the dipstick is so wet that it drips oil when I take it out the second time.

 

What could be causing the oil to not get down into the pan?

[OB99W]

Ummm, which drain plug got pulled? (Because this sounds like it wasn't the engine oil that was drained.)

[OB99W]

I just looked at your other thread:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=111180

 

The responses there pretty much raised the same concern that I did, above. I hope you're not serious, but if you are, my suggestion is to get a manual for the car, and both you and your friend read up on the basics.

[rxleone]

Had posted previously about another problem, which is hopefully fixed, but I discovered a new problem:

 

A friend and I were changing the oil and when we pulled the drain plug and it came out really fast, as normal. The manual says to put in 4.8 qts, but when we put in less than 4 and checked it, it was waaaay above full. My friend thought he had put too much in, so he went to drain it, but when he pulled the plug again, only slightly more than a trickle came out. In other words, the oil is not getting down into the pan. I have been checking the oil once a day or so since then and every time I check it the dipstick is so wet that it drips oil when I take it out the second time.

 

What could be causing the oil to not get down into the pan?

 

 

Sounds like you've drained the trans or diff fluid my friend. I'd stop driving that if I were you, tell your friend to stay clear, and call a mechanic. Tell him exactly what you've done. Otherwise you'll be driving around your car on double engine oil and no diff/trans oil. And that is not a good thing.

[johnceggleston]

which plug exactly did you drain?

 

where exactly did you add the engine oil?

 

what dipstick did you use to check the oil level?

 

the engine oil filler and dipstick are up front near the radiator. the engine oil drain plug faces the passenger side of the oil pan. approach from the front of the car. it's the first one vou get to.

 

the auto trans dip stick is driver side near the firewall under several hoses, AC hoses i think. the drain plug is driver side, of oil pan approach from the drivers door area. the owners manual says to check it with the car running and the fluid is hot, full operating temp. i would ignore that for now and check it without running the car any more. once you get the fluid in the neighborhood of the correct level then you can check it with the car running. the fluid level can be difficult to check and the dipstick hard to read. i'd bet you are 4.5 qts low on trans fluid. this condition will kill your trans.

 

the front diff dip stick is passenger side near the firewall, down low, and very short. i've never seen a dip stick this short on a car before, but my car experience is limited. the drain plug is so hard to see with the car on the ground you will not bump into it unless you really really want to.

 

 

good luck.

[ldkenned]

I feel stupid. Yes it seems like a I drained the transmission fluid and overfilled the engine oil. Crap. Will be fixing this today.

[StructEngineer]

Dont feel stupid. It's SOA engineering at its best.....Hide the often used engine oil plug and make the transmission and diff plugs easily accessible. It's a nightmare for quick lube places.

[ldkenned]

Yea that doesnt seem to make the most sense.

 

Well then I am still having the original problem of the car shuddering when making tight turns. When I put the FWD fuse in, the problem stopped so I think it has something to do with the rear differential? I checked the fluid and it was full.

 

Should I make a new thread about this or continue discussion in here?

[Mike104]

I feel stupid. Yes it seems like a I drained the transmission fluid and overfilled the engine oil. Crap. Will be fixing this today.

 

Lots of people have had that done to them at quick lube places. Subaru eventually made the transmission drain plug a Torx head fastener to make it harder to do that.

 

Hope it works out ok.

[WoodsWagon]

Yea that doesnt seem to make the most sense.

 

Well then I am still having the original problem of the car shuddering when making tight turns. When I put the FWD fuse in, the problem stopped so I think it has something to do with the rear differential? I checked the fluid and it was full.

 

Should I make a new thread about this or continue discussion in here?

 

Did you read what I posted in the other thread? I gave you the solution to the shuddering problem. Your already halfway there with having drained out the transmission pan, now you just need to drain the engine oil (all 9 qts at this point:rolleyes:) and fill the engine and transmissions back to their proper level. Then drive it, drain the transmission and refill it, drive it some more, drain and fill it, and the shuddering should go away. Take out the FWD fuse after you fill the tranny back up the first time or the new fluid won't circulate through the clutchpack.

 

I even gave you directions on which dipstick was where and went to what. This is all covered in the owners manual with pictures if you still have it.

 

You wil KILL this car if you drive it with too much oil in the engine and not enough in the transmission. Thousands of dollars to repair the damage being done, to the point that it would be better to junk the car. So, DO NOT DRIVE IT until you get your oil levels sorted out.

Edited April 22, 2010 by WoodsWagon

[ldkenned]

Yea thats totally my bad Loyale, I guess I didn't read your posts in detail. I didn't see the part about the different drain plugs.

 

Ok I will get some more transmission fluid today when I drain/replace the oil.

 

You say to drain, drive, repeat. How long should I drive it between drains? An hour? A week?

 

Yea I still have the Haynes manual. I will read it more cloesly next time.:-\

[Rooster2]

Yea thats totally my bad Loyale, I guess I didn't read your posts in detail. I didn't see the part about the different drain plugs.

 

Ok I will get some more transmission fluid today when I drain/replace the oil.

 

You say to drain, drive, repeat. How long should I drive it between drains? An hour? A week?

 

Yea I still have the Haynes manual. I will read it more cloesly next time.:-\

 

Sorry to hear that you drained ATF instead of crankcase oil. It is an easy mistake, if you are not familiar with Subarus. Like others have said, DON'T DRIVE THIS CAR, UNTIL YOU HAVE THE PROPER LEVELS OF OIL AND ATF. OTHERSWISE, YOU WILL SEVERELY DAMAGE BOTH THE TRANY AND THE ENGINE.

 

I assume you have an automatic transmission. When draining the trany, only about half the ATF can be drained at one time. The remaining half stays in the torque converter. So, to get a good clean change of ATF, it is a good idea to fill, drive at least 2 or 3 miles, then change ATF. Repeating this process three times eventually gives you good clean ATF in your automatic trany.

[ldkenned]

Autozone is 2.4 miles down the road. Would you say to not even drive that? I will be getting rid of the car within a year, so it's long-term life is not an issue for me. What kind of problems can be causes by driving with too much oil?

[johnceggleston]

Autozone is 2.4 miles down the road. Would you say to not even drive that? I will be getting rid of the car within a year, so it's long-term life is not an issue for me. What kind of problems can be causes by driving with too much oil?

 

too much oil can be a problem, but short term, i'd be more worried about not enough trans fluid. i don't know how much loss it takes to do damage but having lost reverse to "not enough fluid" over the course of an afternoon, pour in 4 qts and then check it.

[ldkenned]

The trans fluid is full to its normal level now, I made sure of that last night. Now the only problem is the overfull oil. Still shouldnt drive it 2.4 miles?

[johnceggleston]

The trans fluid is full to its normal level now, I made sure of that last night. Now the only problem is the overfull oil. Still shouldnt drive it 2.4 miles?

 

i don't know but probably ok.

 

did you add fluid to the trans? sometimes the dip stick can be difficult to read.

[ldkenned]

Yea the dipstick was annoyingly difficult to read, the getting down to it was a pain. I filled it yesterday afternoon and had to wait until the night for it all to flow down in there before I got a good reading. When I checked it last night (with the car warmed up) it was showing at the low cold level, so I added a little less than a qt. I will check after work today and see where the level is now.

[Fairtax4me]

The trans fluid is full to its normal level now, I made sure of that last night. Now the only problem is the overfull oil. Still shouldnt drive it 2.4 miles?/QUOTE]

Absolutely not. You have over twice the capacity of oil in the engine, and not even the correct type. ATF is thinner than oil and can cause bearing and cylinder damage if used while the engine is under load. It might be OK to start it and let it idle in the driveway, (and I still wouldn't do that) but driving and idling are two entirely different things.

 

Overfilling will also cause cavitation of the oil, which will cause it to foam and expand. Air in the oil will make the oil pressure drop, it will bleed down the lifters, and it will build pressure in the crankcase. That pressure has to have somewhere to go, it will start pushing out of oil seals, it will fill up oil separator for the PCV system and the intake will start sucking oil through the PCV and breather hoses. This can lead to hydrolocking of the engine if enough oil is sucked into the combustion chambers.

[ldkenned]

Absolutely not. You have over twice the capacity of oil in the engine, and not even the correct type.

 

I did not put ATF in where the oil should go. I put in normal oil. I do have over twice the capacity in there, but it is all 10W-30.

[Rooster2]

I did not put ATF in where the oil should go. I put in normal oil. I do have over twice the capacity in there, but it is all 10W-30.

 

Good thing you got ATF, where ATF goes, and oil, where oil goes.

 

Still, a bad idea to drive that car at all with way too much oil, even a short distance. If you have an oil catch pan container, it is not that much work to simply loosen to get slight oil drainage, but not remove the oil pan bolt entirely to drain out the extra oil. If you remove the bolt, it is pretty messy to reinstall the bolt, while oil is still flowing out the bolt hole, as oil will be squirting everywhere.

[bheinen74]

I like the title of this thread, and then people provide the answers and solution to why the oil was not draining down. Lots of LERN in this thread.

People on here are great at solving things.

[Rooster2]

Yea the dipstick was annoyingly difficult to read, the getting down to it was a pain. I filled it yesterday afternoon and had to wait until the night for it all to flow down in there before I got a good reading. When I checked it last night (with the car warmed up) it was showing at the low cold level, so I added a little less than a qt. I will check after work today and see where the level is now.

 

Low to High read marks on trany dipstick is about a pint measurement, so it doesn't take much ATF to hit the high mark. Unlike oil dipstick, which low to high reading is a quart measurement.

[WoodsWagon]

The problem with having too much oil in the engine is that the crankshaft is now spinning in the oil sump. It normally spins in open air, with oil draining off of it. When it's submerged in oil, it works like a giant blender, and turns the oil into a froth (think Capachino foam) All the air trapped in bubbles in the oil gets pumped around through the bearings by the oil pump. Air doesn't lubricate very well, and it's nearly as bad as running it with no oil. The pressure surges of the waves of oil being beaten by the crank can blow out the front and rear main seals, valvecover gaskets, ect. as they're not meant to hold back a lake of oil, just oil mist.

 

Drain it down before you drive it.

 

How many quarts of ATF did you put in?

 

As for the drive distance between ATF changes, you want to drive far enough that the transmission oil gets hot, so at least 10 miles of hard driving, and do lots of tight turns. Doing tight figure 8's in a parking lot at low speed helps exercise the clutchpack and get fresh fluid through it.

[1-3-2-4]

Autozone is 2.4 miles down the road. Would you say to not even drive that? I will be getting rid of the car within a year, so it's long-term life is not an issue for me. What kind of problems can be causes by driving with too much oil?

 

2.4 miles down the road with no transmission fluid?