Flood damaged Legacy

[Phizinza]

Has anyone ever dealt with a water damaged Legacy? As in tried to repair it? If the water was half way up the dash, what is likely to be damaged beyond repair and needing replacing?

Thanks

[Rooster2]

Is this a car that you can learn any history on? How long was it left in high water? Anyone attempt to dry it out immediately after being flooded? Was the oil and trany fluid changed after the high water? Does the car run and drive now? Any known electrical function caused by the water, that don't operate now? Does the car interior smell of mold and mildew?

[nipper]

I would walk away.

 

Carpets need to be replaced.

Seats need to be replaced.

Possibly all door peices need to be replaced

Unknown and multiple electrical issues (ECU TCU and Air Bag controller)

So many electrical connectors.

Possible water in the diffs

Seized Brakes

Water in hidden parts of the body that can cause unseen rust.

[Phizinza]

Don't know if it runs. No history known.

 

 

 

Carpets need to be replaced.

Seats need to be replaced.

...

Possible water in the diffs

Seized Brakes

Water in hidden parts of the body that can cause unseen rust.

Why would the carpets and seats have to be replaced? I've sunk my current 83 Subaru so water went over the seats, I just pulled them out with the carpet washed and dried them. They look and smell fine now.

 

Brakes can be fixed easily. A quick clean of the discs with a wire brush on the grinder and same on the pads. Change all the fluid while doing it all as well .

 

I'm quite capable of pulling down the diff and gearbox to clean it all up and remove rust.

 

Pulling all the interior panels off and cleaning out the water would take its time, but it's not like the car costs so much to start with.

 

I'm more interested in the ECU and engine condition after such event.

[nipper]

One word, MOLD. You may have sunk your car, but how long has this been sitting . Flood does not mean, "oh shoot i drove into too deep a hole and need to get out of it before i drown, and the car out before it is ruined". Flood means the car was parked, water rushed in, and the car had water in it for many hours or days.

 

But as I say, If people wish to through thier money away on a gamble that has unknown risks, enjoy. The car may not cost much, but how much money and time are you willing to throw away/put into it.

 

ECU is a crap shoot. Engine as long as the water did not get in the intake MAY be ok, but i wouldnt want it even for parts. There is the chance of rusted timing belt tensioners and idlers.

 

The Diffs are not a matter of pulling them down, but replacing them, unlses you have the space and time to tear them down. Brakes are not just cleaning up the rotors. you have calipers and sliders that seize. the one thing I dont expect any issues with is the brake fluid as that is a sealed system.

 

There is a perfectly valid reason why insurance compaines total flood cars no questions asked.

 

nipper

[john in KY]

A friend of one of my nieces several years ago wanted to buy a flood damaged VW and no one could talk her out of it. The car had electrical problems you couldn't believe. No sooner than one was repaired, something else would fail. On top of that none of her friends would ride in the car in the summer because of the mold and stink. After several years of suffering with the car she finally junked it because it had zero resale value.

[WoodsWagon]

Flood waters often have a lot of silt in them, which lurks in bearings and will slowly eat every bearing out of the drivetrain as you use the car. Connectors in the engine bay are weather-pak so they're moisture resistant. Connectors inside the car are not, so the water will get into all of them and they will start to corrode. All the printed circuit boards in the car will start having problems unless each case was opened and flushed with clean water and dried immediately after the sinking.

 

The problem is that the cars sit in salvage lots, and the sun heats them up and the moisture percolates off of the windows and everything is damp and corroding/rusty.

 

The state I live in, New Hampshire, is a "As Is" sale state. So, we have people selling flood cars online out of their NH dealership. People from all over buy the cars, because the pictures look good online (they do pressure wash the mud out of the interiors first). They then send them sight unseen to the local real dealerships to "Put in a PCM, that's what they said it needs" The local dealership tells them the car needs a new harness, all new sensors, new switches, new cluster, new electrical everything, they get all offended. "NO, all it needs is a PCM!" So we put in a PCM, and guess what, the PCM works. Nothing else does. So then they get pissed off, and try to go after the salvage cars place, but HA HA you bought it "As Is" so you're screwed.

 

There's a very good reason flood cars are TOTALed by insurance companies. Unless you're interested in using a body shell for swapping everything out of an accident damaged car, don't even consider messing with one. It's a long, expensive trail of tears and it only ends badly.

 

I watched one of my neighbors go down the primrose path with an Audi A6 he bought from them. It was only 6" above the floor in water, and he was blinded by the V8 AWD with RS6 suspension and brakes, tiptronic shifing and whatnot. He poured THOUSANDS into that car, 7k into just the transmission and TCU, plus lots more having a guy hand-rewire all the corroded connectors, plus a body control module because the sunroof would randomly open it's self while parked and the car alarm would go off at random times. And while he pissed away his hard earned money trying to get it all fixed, the car would keep throwing random missfire codes, so he could never get it to pass state inspection. He had sold his WRX to pay for the repairs to the Audi, and ended up driving his 500hp fox-body mustang all winter because his AWD Audi wasn't street legal. After pouring all this money into the car, how much was it worth? Nothing. A salvage title kills the resale value of any car, no matter how nice it is. So there it sits on blocks in his yard, as he slowly parts it out to other Audi nuts online.

 

Salvage cars due to Hail, fire, or theft can be OK with a little work. Stay very far away from flood cars or "storm damage"

[idosubaru]

if there's no known history of the car then it's hard to say, the guesses are as wild as the possibilities. sounds like a bad idea, wiring and engine could easily be hosed. but my time is valuable, i'm leaning towards more and more risk averse in stuff like this, doesn't pay.

 

some people love the novelty of cheap, it becomes a game, or making something work that didn't have a chance, if that's the case then go for it. gotta roll with what drives you sometimes.

[Phizinza]

My brothers car was a flood damaged car. He bought it from someone who had got it from an auction and had spent some money on all all the interior electrics. So it ran fine, drove fine. But there were little issue like the heater box controls were dead because of corrosion. We ripped the dash out and fixed it up. Car is good now, and has been for months. And for $8000 less then market value with only 10 hours or so of our work put in and less then $500 parts I'd say a good deal. I understand what water can do and where it can get. But you see changing some bearings and stripping down a gearbox isn't much work for me, done it countless times before. Replacing ECU's and sensors is where I'd rather not go due to replacement price...

 

My cars carpets stayed wet for 4 days, like push down on them and a puddle would appear. They are fine now after I pressure cleaned them out of the car and dried them.

[idosubaru]

Same as every other decision we make, paying less and getting less (in terms of risk). It's not quantifiable and anecdotal experiences mean nothing in a situation like this. Just because one person had a good/bad experience means nothing for this car. If you're comfortable with that risk then go. Sounds like you're not really asking and with your skills could care less about the risk of possible future repairs, I say jump on it and give it a whirl.

 

I think the more miles/years you want out of it the less valuable it is. If you go through cars quick then yeah who cares. If you like 200,000 miles out of a vehicle then that's not as good of a fit.

 

Why not buy one needing known work like engine/trans/suspension/body work or something for cheap and fix it? I guess they're harder to come by there than here?

[Phizinza]

Mechanical damage is fairly rare here.

 

I'm looking at storm damaged car auctions as the cars go extremely cheap.

 

My question for here was what electronically would most likely be dead after such incident. I've heard of people sinking their cars in holes and taking hours to recover and all they needed to do was wash it out and let it dry. But I've also seen first hand ECU's dead because of water. So I guess like all things it's just a bit hit and miss. I just thought someone might have experience with what a Legacy's equipment would take.

[sparky11]

Another thing to consider, you did not specify if it was flooded with salt water or fresh. Salt water--don't even consider it! The longer any car sits wet the less likely it is to be worth repairing.

 

We had two vehicles lot to fresh water flood damage, a brand new at the time 2006 Ford F150 loaded XLT and a 1990 Pontiac Grand Prix that was in good condition. Totaled

[sparky11]

The two vehicles were submerged for about 4 hours and probably could have been salvaged had they been attended to right after the water went down, however they set around for about two weeks before they were towed away.

 

That being said I still would not want them even if they had been given to me after they sat that long wet. If I could have got them right away I know I could have dried them out and had little or no problems as I have done flood damage restoration for years. It is not for the average person or faiant of heart.

[brus brother]

The two vehicles were submerged for about 4 hours and probably could have been salvaged had they been attended to right after the water went down, however they set around for about two weeks before they were towed away.

 

That being said I still would not want them even if they had been given to me after they sat that long wet. If I could have got them right away I know I could have dried them out and had little or no problems as I have done flood damage restoration for years. It is not for the average person or faiant of heart.

So were you parked at the old Westport train station?

[sparky11]

No, I'm in Ohio. We had a 5" per hour storm that caused the city reservoir to overflow so heavily that its drainage creek couldn't handle it. The house basement / garages sit about 6 ft above the creek in a valley that runs thru town. The water overflowed the banks by about 6 feet and trashed the car, new truck, new 32' 5th wheel camper, garages and an apartment to the tune of $200,000+ dollars. What a mess that was!

[nipper]

Don't know if it runs. No history known.

 

 

 

 

Why would the carpets and seats have to be replaced? I've sunk my current 83 Subaru so water went over the seats, I just pulled them out with the carpet washed and dried them. They look and smell fine now.

 

Brakes can be fixed easily. A quick clean of the discs with a wire brush on the grinder and same on the pads. Change all the fluid while doing it all as well .

 

I'm quite capable of pulling down the diff and gearbox to clean it all up and remove rust.

 

Pulling all the interior panels off and cleaning out the water would take its time, but it's not like the car costs so much to start with.

 

I'm more interested in the ECU and engine condition after such event.

 

 

Convinced yet?

[Phizinza]

If the price is right I'll buy it, but we will see.

 

So no ones had experience with water damaged Legacy electrics?

[john in KY]

If you do buy this car, keep us posted on how it turned out. Some one did ask if the car was flooded with salt or fresh water. Knowing which makes a huge difference.

[WoodsWagon]

You seem convinced it's worth it, and as long as you're prepared to overhaul everything and own the car for the rest of it's life, go for it. It's your time, and your money.

 

Everyone's heard of the guy with the flood salvage car that had no problems and was great. Mabe you can be that guy if you're lucky. But, I had first hand experience working in a Honda dealership on multiple salvage flood cars and I can say that they were all screwed. If it went dash-deep, you'll be doing lots of work. I felt bad for the people that had been suckered into buying the cars, as they were excited that they were getting them for less than market value and it was going to be a quick fixer-upper. People buying salvage cars usually have limited resources anyway, so pouring money into a junk car isn't usually included in their budget.

[Flowmastered87GL]

I wouldn't take it for free personally.

 

If I had a wrecked parts car (good runnning gear and EVERYTHING electric) then I would move it all over.

 

I have no experience with water damaged legacy stuff, but I would worry about the heater controls going out, the ECU dying, power windows going out, TCU going out (if auto), ,airbags going off for no reason.

 

On something older and simpler like a brat, no big deal, but a legacy is a dime a dozen car, I would just get one thats not such a gamble.

[Phizinza]

If you do buy this car, keep us posted on how it turned out. Some one did ask if the car was flooded with salt or fresh water. Knowing which makes a huge difference.

Fresh.

 

 

You seem convinced it's worth it, and as long as you're prepared to overhaul everything and own the car for the rest of it's life, go for it. It's your time, and your money.

I'm convinced if the price is convincing.. Its at an auction so won't know until it sells.

 

I just asked on here to find out if anyone had had experience with this type of thing and with the electrics. I know about what the water will do to metals, what it will do on the inside of the engine, what it will do to carpets, etc... I just know that different brands do different things with cars so the damage would be different. For instance, many Lancia's and Fiat's in the 80's and 90's had resin sealed ECU's...

[Fairtax4me]

Don't waste your time. You'll have electrical gremlins out the wazoo. Even if you can get the car cleaned up well enough to keep the mildew out, the wire harnesses are still full of water and they'll corrode and create more headaches than you really want to deal with. Basically, you'll have to scrap half the car and find a wrecked or rusted out donor for cheap to take all the wires and electronics out of. If you just start writing down all the parts of the car that are electronic, even if it's an older vehicle, you just don't realize how much of the car is electronic.

 

the one thing I dont expect any issues with is the brake fluid as that is a sealed system.

Only to a certain degree. There is a vent in the cap that water can get in through, though there is a rubber diaphragm, there's no guarantee that water won't get past that and into the reservoir. Even if it hasn't been contaminated, probably still a good idea to flush it.

But speaking of fluid contamination. Motor oil, power steering, differentials, transmission, antifreeze (yes, antifreeze can be contaminated by water getting into the overflow reservoir) gasoline, could be others depenging on the other equipment on the car. The big one here, possibly the worst, is if the car has an automatic transmission. The clutch packs in automatic transmissions DO NOT react well to water. Basically they fall apart and leave you with a dead transmission. Water has to be flushed out of the transmission ASAP in order to avoid failure.

[sparky11]

Bottom line is a flood damage car with no verifiable history should be AVOIDED like the plague it is!

 

I HAVE repaired 2 flood damaged cars with great success--HOWEVER THEY WERE DONE WITHIN 24 HOURS OF BEING FLOODED, and they had water only up to the seats. 1 was an 85 Honda Accord back in 86 when it was relatively new and it was covered by insurance. I replaced all electronics that were on or near the floor including the main ECU. There was an identifiable water line inside so we didn't have to guess.

 

We took out the seats and carpet and trunk coverings, pulled off the door panels etc to clean and dry them and the interior. Opened up the main harness covers, pulled apart all harness connectors, cleaned the connectors , etc and dried the interior.

 

Changed all the fluids, serviced the brakes, repacked the rear wheel bearings -- you get the Idea! Many but not all electronics are powered even though the ignition is off and they are not sealed for moisture if they are in the interior of the car. Water and electricity don't mix so usually there is damage to them you can't detect visually even if you dry them out. Take it from someone who is both a professional mechanic and a fire / flood restoration tech, I would not attempt to restore such a no history vehicle unless it had historical value or was exotic and even then----???

[bheinen74]

There are a lot of cars on the market which have been flooded but never got branded as such. Buyer beware if you ever by a car from Gulf Coast states, especially pay attention to carfax places the car was registered. Katrina, and other storms, were a way for crooks to make huge profit buying cheap flooded cars off people, then making the cleanup, only to sell. If a car was ever registered in New Orleans during the year 2005, it is surely a flood car-saltwater.

 

I wouldnt touch any flood car. Even some in Iowa from Iowa City and Cedar Rapids have high likely hood of being flooded.

Best way to check, is to look closely at the condition of the carpet. Any staining in the backseat carpet, or not being plush is good evidence. Also, look in the spare tire area, you can usually tell there too, it will look corrodedish. Right now, there are a lot of questionable cars from Iowa on the market due to there has been time to clean them up from the flooding we had last year.

If you go look at a car, and all the windows are down, its a sign they may be trying to air out the mold, must of a flood.

 

Anyhow. Good luck. A non flooded car with value of 15g is worth about 2g once its flooded-thats after it is fixed. Cause really, they never can be fixed 100%

like said, bearings, brakes, rotors, hubs, shocks, springs hinges, all the electrical from bulbs to wire to dash, sensors, alternators, wipers, lights, everything is ruined in a flooded car.

Edited April 26, 2010 by bheinen74

[Gloyale]

 

I just asked on here to find out if anyone had had experience with this type of thing and with the electrics.

 

I flooded my GL turbo (the turbo looked sooooo much like a snail crawling on my underwater motor:rolleyes:)

 

First thing was to remove the carpet and seats and dry them. Then I took out the ECU, TCU, and Cruise computers. Removed dash and brought it inside after blowing out all the connectors with compreesed air.

 

Then unplugged every single connector inside the body and sprayed WD-40 in them.

 

After that I started with the repacking all wheel bearings, replaceing all fluids (diff, ATF, power steering, Engine) and drained the gas tank (hotwired pump and pumped it out....actually not much water if any in there)

 

It was alot of work but everything seemed to make it though just fine. No electrical gremlins or noticeable problems from the flood except for the Cruise computer, it died I think.

 

Difference may be that I did all that drying out within days of the flooding. And I pulled the battery cable off within 60 secs of the initial submersion.

 

If the ECU got wet, and then sat with moisteur in the tin can box for weeks?months?years? I wonder what the corrosion on the board is like.

 

I wouldn't pay more than half the scrap value for it. But I'd buy it for that in a heartbeat. Get it if it goes that cheap.