1997 Outback Head Gasket Problems

[marinehrnt]

Have a 97 Outback with head gasket issues. First head gasket went out about three years ago, got it fixed and it went out again about a week ago. Took it back to the same place and was told it needed to replaced again but they said it may not last long. I asked if they pressure tested the heads and checked for warping. The mechanic said pressure testing heads is completely worthless and very unreliable on this engine. I'm no expert on Subaru engines but this sounds a little strange to me. Is there any truth to not pressure testing or dye testing these heads. They are telling I should either put in a new block and heads or get a re-built engine because there is no guarantee this won't happen again in 1,000 miles. But at the same time they said they can't see anything wrong with the block or heads, but have not pressure or dye tested either. Any ideas? Thanks much.

[idosubaru]

Usually a repeat failure is due to the mechanic making a mistake. In this case, since it lasted a few yeas, I would say that's definitely the case. Repeat failures right after the fact can sometimes be cracked blocks, shifted sleeves, etc.

 

My first guess is they didn't use a Subaru head gasket. Very typical for repeat failures on aftermarket head gaskets on this motor. On some Subaru's the aftermarkets are excellent...even better...but not on this motor.

 

Use Subaru headgaskets or swap to another motor. An Ej22 swap would be cheaper than another Ej25, as the price for those tends to be really high due to the higher propensity for failure.

[lmdew]

95 EJ2.2 with EGR is a great option and very cheap. I've done 8 or more and everyone worked out great and the people that have bought the cars are happy!

[marinehrnt]

Is that switch to the 2.2L an easy one or does some serious fabrication have to be done? Right now my options are to replace the head gaskets again (said they would do it for $900 since it went out so quickly) or put in a rebuilt engine which they quoted at $4,300 and it has a 24,000 mile warranty. I would love to get away from this engine and go with a 2.2 if they don't have the same issues. Thanks for the help!

[idosubaru]

You never mentioned whether they used Subaru headgaskets or aftermarket?

 

TONS of information about this swap here, it's very straight forward and there is absolutely no customization required. you only need to get the right parts, all easily available.

 

if you get a 96 or earlier Ej22 the timing components are really cheap (complete ebay kits, all new idlers for $80) and they're also non-interference. all of that pretty much means those engines can last as long as you care to maintain them if you don't overheat or run them out of oil.

 

you need an EJ22 with EGR. that means:

95 from an automatic

Any 96-98 with EGR and you'll need an exhaust manifold as well.

 

Get one of those combinations and it's a plug and play swap, nothing extra has to be done.

 

I would not get a rebuilt EJ25, unless it came from CCR or someone I really trusted.

[marinehrnt]

Thank you very much for all the info on the ej22 swap. I was told that my head gaskets were replaced with Subaru gaskets three years ago. So, I think at this point replacing them again seems a little risky. From the sounds of it the best option is the ej22 and not a rebuilt ej25. Thanks again.

[Gloyale]

Were both gaskets done the first time? or is this now the other side going out?

 

Were the heads resurfaced during the last change? Block checked and surfaced if needed?

 

And is this a subaru shop? Subaru has odd torque by degree tightening sequence that is easy for inexperienced to screw up.

 

2.2 swap is great, but I think you may be getting low estimates for the actual cost of obtaining and installing a good 2.2 in this area. The wreckers know that people love their roo's and they charge big money for good engines. Expect to pay at least $400 for the engine and who knows what for the install.

[mr.radon]

WOW, $900 for a head gasket job???

 

Read the board and rebuild the motor yourself. Not too hard.

 

Or do the EJ22 swap.

[marinehrnt]

Were both gaskets done the first time? or is this now the other side going out?

 

Were the heads resurfaced during the last change? Block checked and surfaced if needed?

 

And is this a subaru shop? Subaru has odd torque by degree tightening sequence that is easy for inexperienced to screw up.

 

2.2 swap is great, but I think you may be getting low estimates for the actual cost of obtaining and installing a good 2.2 in this area. The wreckers know that people love their roo's and they charge big money for good engines. Expect to pay at least $400 for the engine and who knows what for the install.

 

Both head gaskets were done last time. And I was told that only Subaru parts were used. This an independent shop run by a Subaru certified mechanic but I'm seriously starting to question some of the answers I'm getting from the guy. He is telling me the 2.2 swap is a huge pain and not worth the money. I did some research and found the CCR engines website and ran that by him as well, he claims those engines are junk and that there is no way they can be selling true re-manufactured engines for that cheap. He gets really angry if you start to question anything, I think he expects everyone to just follow blindly.

 

I'm about fed up so I may just take the car back and do the work myself. I have never worked on the outback but did tear the engine out of my 92 Loyale and rebuilt it will great success. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Qman]

Both head gaskets were done last time. And I was told that only Subaru parts were used. This an independent shop run by a Subaru certified mechanic but I'm seriously starting to question some of the answers I'm getting from the guy. He is telling me the 2.2 swap is a huge pain and not worth the money. I did some research and found the CCR engines website and ran that by him as well, he claims those engines are junk and that there is no way they can be selling true re-manufactured engines for that cheap. He gets really angry if you start to question anything, I think he expects everyone to just follow blindly.

 

I'm about fed up so I may just take the car back and do the work myself. I have never worked on the outback but did tear the engine out of my 92 Loyale and rebuilt it will great success. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

What shop? A simple resurface that is done incorrectly can cause premature failure. The early 2.5 didn't have an issue. They had piston slap. Depending on maintenance and service history is whether or not it is worth repairing or replacing.

[subaru360]

I would do the 2.2 swap rather than risk a 3rd failure. It is extremely straightforward as long as you get the correct 2.2 engine. If you had the engine of a loyale, you can do this swap.

[Mike104]

Both head gaskets were done last time. And I was told that only Subaru parts were used. This an independent shop run by a Subaru certified mechanic but I'm seriously starting to question some of the answers I'm getting from the guy. He is telling me the 2.2 swap is a huge pain and not worth the money. I did some research and found the CCR engines website and ran that by him as well, he claims those engines are junk and that there is no way they can be selling true re-manufactured engines for that cheap. He gets really angry if you start to question anything, I think he expects everyone to just follow blindly.

 

I'm about fed up so I may just take the car back and do the work myself. I have never worked on the outback but did tear the engine out of my 92 Loyale and rebuilt it will great success. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

Two failures sounds like he didn't do something right. Sounds like he doesn't want to to the 2.2 swap or loose his mark-up on the CCR engine. Time to find yourself another shop or do the job yourself!