84 GL Wagon, Wont Keep Running

[idahohay]

1984 GL wagon with a Carter/Weber carb. Car has died a couple of times now and both spark and power to the fuel pump dissapear. I have been able to get it going again but don't know why. It is presently dead with no power or spark. There is power to the coil when key is on but no spark, and no power to the fuel pump from the fuel pump control unit.(little blue box) I have tried an other blue box with no change. There is a solenoid(?) on the right side of carb that ticks when the key is on and I don't know if this is normal.

 

Could this be computer related or some sort of sensor? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, any advice on what manual to buy ? The Haynes manual I purchased does not have a wiring diagram that is accurated. And to those responsible, thank you for this website.

[GeneralDisorder]

Carter/Weber = Fail.

 

Trust me - you don't want to deal with that thing - especially if it's a feedback unit with a computer (sounds like it is based on you haveing the blue FPCU).

 

But it sounds like your problem is electrical. I doubt you have a fuel pump power problem - the little blue fuel pump control unit will only supply power while cranking or running based on the tach signal. You problem is a lack of spark. You need to check for power to the + side of the coil and check the primary and secondary coil winding resistance.

 

Where are you located in the PNW? If you are around the Portland, OR area I might be able to help.

 

GD

[naru]

If a test light illuminates but does not flash on coil -while cranking,it is most likely a flaky ignition module in the disty.

 

Try another.

[idahohay]

Thanks for the replies. I will check primary and secondary coil resistance. Previously, there is no spark when the coil wire is held close to metal while cranking.

 

I am located in Idaho panhandle. Many thanks again.

[idahohay]

coil resistance is 12.45 ohms secondary(between coil wire and (-) primary, and between primary terminals it is 0.

[GeneralDisorder]

0 is a dead short - that's not good. It should be about 1.5 to 2.5 ohms or so. The 12.45 is likely kilo-ohms so it's really 12,450 Ohms which would be correct. Check the range setting on your meter. You might not have it set low enough for it to read the primary resistance.

 

GD

[idahohay]

I tried 2 different meters, one was 1.6 and the other was 2.0 . On the secondary, one was 12.45 and one was 12.46K.

 

If these values indicate a new coil. does it have to be exact replacement?

[GeneralDisorder]

Those values sound just fine to me.

 

Do you have power to the + side of the coil with the ignition on and while cranking?

 

GD

[idahohay]

Not only did it have power but it started. This happened before. I was starting to think that unhooking the battery and re-hooking it up had something to do with it but it could be something as simple as a bad coil wire and just moving it around helped. I will probably replace spark plug and coil wires even though they are relatively new.

 

Thanks so much GD I will report back. This is actually my daughters car and she just loves it. From what I have have learned the car is great except for the carter/weber feedback setup.

 

hr

[GeneralDisorder]

If it gives you more trouble after you do the plugs and wires (and cap and rotor would be a good idea as well), then you might have an intermittant failure on the ignition module inside the distributor. Those are harder to test and it's easiest to just install another and see if it makes a difference.

 

Glad to hear it's running for you as of now.

 

And yes - the EA81 in that wagon you have there is a wonderful engine - near bulletproof and very simple to work on. Exactly the type of car I would want for a daughter if I had one .

 

GD

[idahohay]

GD, I guess I spoke too soon. The car was warming up, it must have known I was washing my hands, it died and no spark again. The coil still tests out ok and there is power to it when cranking but noting coming of the coil wire. I guess I'll start looking for another distributer ?

 

Thanks again, I sure appreciate the quick response.

[ferox]

Did someone already say check the fusible links?

[GeneralDisorder]

Did someone already say check the fusible links?

 

Don't need to with a carbed EA81 - if there is power to the coil, and the coil checks out - then the module in the disty is bad. The distributor relies on the coil power and that is all. There is only two wires from the distributor and they go to the coil +/- and nowhere else.

 

Yes - you need a new module or good used distributor. Post in the wanted section and I'll look and see what I have to offer you.

 

Is the car a 2WD or a 4WD? That will tell us what brand of distributor you need. 2WD will be a Nippon distributor, and 4WD will be a Hitachi. The brand must match the coil as well - sometimes it's easier to tell which coil you have from a sticker or printing, etc. Look at the distributor comparison pictures here on my SPFI conversion page and tell me which one you have:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/EA81_SPFI.html

 

GD

[idahohay]

The car is 2wd and has Nippon Denso dist. Two numbers on it are 429879000 and 100291-0300. I will try roter and cap tomorrow, visually the existing one looks good and is about a year old but ..

 

Thanks for your continued support.

hr

[GeneralDisorder]

visually the existing one looks good and is about a year old but ..

 

That is troubleing - they don't typically fail if they are properly remanufactured. Although of the two the Nippon units seem to be more troublesome.

 

A Hitachi set will also work for you if you get a matching coil.

 

The numbers are meaningless for this - any EA81 distributor will work for you as long as you have a matching brand coil for it.

 

In fact the Hitachi units are prefered since the module can be replaced for $50 or less while the ND module's are around $250 to $300

 

GD

[idahohay]

can the distributor be from a 4wd ? Sounds like if it is an EA81 in a 4wd it will be a Hitachi but will bolt up, just make sure I get the matching coil?

[ferox]

Don't need to with a carbed EA81 - if there is power to the coil, and the coil checks out - then the module in the disty is bad. The distributor relies on the coil power and that is all. There is only two wires from the distributor and they go to the coil +/- and nowhere else.

He originally posted that he wasn't getting power to the fuel pump as well. Apparently he is at least getting intermittent power to the pump if it started for a short while, but I did not see where that was addressed in this thread. If he has never checked the fusible links, he probably should anyway. They are easy to get to, and it is never bad to see what condition they are in.

[GeneralDisorder]

True - never a bad idea to check them.

 

I concluded that his problem was not fuel pump power - since he didn't realize that you can only check for fuel pump power while cranking or running. And when it dies he loses spark. He needs to address the no-spark issue before worring about fuel pump power.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

can the distributor be from a 4wd ? Sounds like if it is an EA81 in a 4wd it will be a Hitachi but will bolt up, just make sure I get the matching coil?

 

Correct - Any EA81 distributor will work. Just get the matching coil.

 

GD

[idahohay]

I ordered a guaranteed rebuilt Hitachi dist., a new Hitachi coil, roter and cap. total with shipping was about 200.00. Would like to have scored something cheaper, but chose not to take the time. There was a Nippondenso dist. for sale on ebay for 15.00 but didn't feel like gambling. I will report back when the parts are in. Many thanks.

[GeneralDisorder]

Sorry I didn't get a chance to check my selection here. But new with a gaurantee is good and that's not at all a bad price. It's $50 just to have a vacuum pot rebuilt and they can't be sourced anymore through the usual channels so $200 shipped for a disty *and* coil are an excelent deal really. Especially since both are new and it should just be a bolt-on and never worry about it again. The Hitachi's often last twice as long as the ND's. The original ND in my '84 wagon died just shy of 150k and I had it rebuilt. But often the Hitachi's go the life of the car. My '83 hatch w/Hitachi has 260k on it and no signs of failure yet.

 

The Hitachi units really are the better designed of the two. They will accept more wear on the shaft bushings before causing problems and they don't seem to die as easily as the ND's. In fact the only distributor's I've ever had fail on EA engines have been ND's. I've had both bushing and module failure on them while I've not yet had a Hitachi die on me.

 

I'm always wary of the "rebuilt" stuff - here in OR (and since I've been doing Subaru's for a decade now) I haven't had any trouble finding good used distributors so the few failure's I've had haven't caused much issue for me - walk over to electrical parts shelf and grab another one . I have had one ND unit rebushed and the vacuum pot rebuilt about 6 or 7 years ago and the cost was $55 for both services (the price has since doubled or more) and it's been perfect ever since - but I looked the man in the eye that did the rebuild and that gives me more confidence than buying from some unknown "rebuilder" ya know.

 

Hopefully you have no issues. I just had the exact same scenario with an '87 EA82 - also with the ND - it would start and run for a while then all of a sudden it wouldn't take throttle anymore and then shortly after it would die and not restart. Then after 20 minutes or the next day it would fire up again. I replaced it with a used Hitachi and Coil and it's doing fine now.

 

GD

[idahohay]

I got the Hitachi Distributor and coil installed and the car fired right up. I still have a few issues to deal with like the wires that went to the Nippondenso had a grommet that fit it and not the Hitachi. Also the nippondenso had a gasket that didn't really fit the Hitachi so I will silicone it and the grommet that I remodeled, maybe even silicone the cap on.

 

It still leaks a bit of oil but thats a project for another day(or week)

 

Many thanks GD

 

hr

[GeneralDisorder]

Great! Glad that fixed up your problem.

 

Oil leaks are generally valve covers or oil pan on these - they are cork. Coat the replacements in RTV and let them dry before installation to create your own rubber gasket that won't absorb oil and get cooked to shoe leather. Rarely a front main seal will leak but I've seen that too.

 

GD

[idahohay]

I pressured washed all the old oil off the front and valve cover areas. I didn't get back on the transaxle very well but it is very covered. While up on jack stands I discovered the holes that let you at least tighten up the pan and all the bolts were loose but you are right, the pan gasket probably needs replaced. But after getting it running oil appeared on the flat area that you see when looking down toward the right of the crank pulley . (The oil filter is just to the right and lower.) I was assuming the oil was coming from the shaft seal and running down till it appeared. I'm thinking of doing the pan on a different day. The valve covers were supposedly done about a year ago but I didn't do them so I am watching them for leaks.

 

Thanks again, GD

hr (sometimes known as General Specialist!!(serioualy)