'92 Subaru Loyale question

[Cougar]

You might be lucky here since you say it is losing coolant. The intake manifold gaskets may be leaking. The head gaskets may also be leaking though. The intake gaskets are a pretty common failure.

 

As far as the repair price goes there is an issue that some folks don't realize and that is repair costs in Alaska are higher than a lot of other places in the USA. The quote for the work you got sounds about right to me.

[meghpie]

Would the intake manifolds be a simpler job?

 

I feel silly being such an utter newbie, but we all have to start somewhere, right? What I lack in experience, I have in enthusiasm! My husband thinks I'm nuts for being so excited to keep this car running!

[GeneralDisorder]

Well - if this respected shop says head gaskets...... I would assume they are familair with what a bad intake manifold gasket looks like but you never know. These cars are getting pretty old so a mis-diagnosis is certainly possible simply due to mechanic's that are not familair with the details of the EA82.

 

The intake gaskets are much easier than head gaskets - just pull the intake manifold off, clean the gasket surfaces, chase the threads, and reinstall with new (dealer only) gaskets.

 

Corrosion can be a factor with the intake bolts though. It's important to be very careful and patient when removing them as they have a bad tendancy to break off either in the manifold or flush with the head.

 

GD

[Cougar]

Would the intake manifolds be a simpler job?

 

I feel silly being such an utter newbie, but we all have to start somewhere, right? What I lack in experience, I have in enthusiasm! My husband thinks I'm nuts for being so excited to keep this car running!

 

We do have to start somewhere if you really are interested in learning about engines and car maintenance. You need to have your own basic set of tools at least and hopefully a factory service manual to work on the car. It also helps to have a place inside to work on the car since we are getting into winter now.

 

It is good to have the excitement about working on the car but your husband has a good point possibly since you have to consider how much time and money you really want to spend on an old car to keep it running. We like our Soobs but sometimes it is better to let go of the old one and look to newer (Soob of course) car.

 

GD has some good advice with his post.

[meghpie]

Well, I just talked to the shop, and the guy at the desk told me that they saw oil and coolant leaking externally, and that they saw the oil and the coolant coming from different places, if that makes sense. But that they didn't do a compression test so there's no way of knowing if it's leaking internally. They also didn't test the exhaust for hydrocarbons.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

The Last time my EA82 Wagon made the Same Whistle Sound, very intermintent; it was coming from the Timing Belt Tensioneer's Ball Bearing.

 

Some Coolant & Oil Leakage on this Engines is Somehow "Normal" if the Leakage is a Li'l Amount... Certain Places like the Oil Filter and the Various Tiny Water Hoses are Good Candidates...

 

Are You Sure that the Head Gaskets are Damaged? ... I'll Suggest to do a Compression Test Prior to Determine their Real Being.

 

Good Luck - Kind Regards.

[meghpie]

It is good to have the excitement about working on the car but your husband has a good point possibly since you have to consider how much time and money you really want to spend on an old car to keep it running. We like our Soobs but sometimes it is better to let go of the old one and look to newer (Soob of course) car.

 

GD has some good advice with his post.

 

I guess I am kind of between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't mind a newer subie, but the finances combined with the fact that what I can afford (5000 or so, it would hurt, but I could get the loan) doesn't go real far up here. Plus I have this car that is great, new tranny, new radiator, blah blah blah, i just want it to run! My pie in the sky plan right now is to keep this car going and use it as a second vehicle after I get something a little newer. Looks really are not important to me, and if I didn't have kids I'd be fine with this little wagon forever, but I'd like airbags and abs. Like I said, maybe a trip next year to Portland could result in something to drive back up in. Then I would have the ability to wrench on the loyale with the freedom of having another car.

Payments scare me. Even though my car has been a pit, it's nothing compared to a payment and the mandatory collision insurance. Not to mention there isn't a whole lot of room in the budget right now.

The newer Subies with low miles up here are just so incredibly expensive!

[GeneralDisorder]

I could fix you up for less than $5k. I just sold a '99 OBW with a 135k drivetrain (212k on the body) for that. I currently have a '97 OBW that I'm going to sell for $4500 or so - one owner, auto, 169k, rebuilt heads, new head gaskets/complete reseal, and all new maintenance items, etc. Short block looked excelent and has had good maintenence - just missed the 105k valve adjustment and burned an exhaust valve.

 

I get non-Outback Legacy's from time to time as well. Just depends on what I find. I don't turn down the OB's though as they are desireable so I grab them when I see them.

 

GD

[meghpie]

Hi again-

Just trying to find a shop to do the compression test and searching the posts here for more information when I came across this from General Disorder on another thread:

 

A compression test on an old engine with a relatively small leak won't tell you much. A 25 to 50 psi difference could just as easily be a burned valve seat as it could be a bad head gasket. I have one cylinder in my '83 hatch (EA81) that is 35 psi lower than the others. Doesn't leak or burn any coolant at all nor does it even run any different really. It affects the idle such that I have to richen it up a bit for it to run smooth - that's about it.

 

If the cylinder were leaking badly enough to find it with a compression tester you would notice some really evident running problems - poor/rough idle, etc.

 

To find a head gasket leak you really have to do a leak-down test and it needs to be performed correctly. Even then on an older engine it may be hard to tell as the valves probably leak a great deal on their own. You want to pressurize the cylinder and look for air bubbles comming up through the coolant, etc.

 

The thing is, my car is running great, no problems, no changes from 5 months ago when they said the head gaskets looked great. I asked them to really look, because I didn't want to pay for a new radiator if the head gasket was leaking. No overheating, no running rough. They said I could have the exhaust tested for fluorocarbons, but they said they thought it was fine and to save the money. but Will a compression test definitively say if my head gasket is leaking if it isn't bad enough to be affecting the engine?

 

Any Anchorageans have any good shop recommendations? I go to A & A The Shop now, and have no complaints other than the fact that they seem to have an uncanny sense of any time my bank account goes up! I just thought it might be good to have a fresh set of eyes looking at the issues.

 

I'm also looking for a good (cheap) basic tool set if anyone can recommend a brand. I was thinking Craftsman, but I obviously don't know a whole lot about much!

 

Thanks in advance!

Meghan

[GeneralDisorder]

They claim you are using coolant..... you need to have a cooling system pressure test done not a compression test. It is evident that your compression is fine so testing that will tell you nothing. A leak-down test might show bubbles in the radiator. If it passes both of those tests then there is still the possibility that a leak exists which only opens once hot...... that is much harder to find and it's best to only conclude that once if passes both the leak-down and the cooling system pressure test yet continues to use coolant.

 

GD

[meghpie]

They claim you are using coolant..... you need to have a cooling system pressure test done not a compression test. It is evident that your compression is fine so testing that will tell you nothing. A leak-down test might show bubbles in the radiator. If it passes both of those tests then there is still the possibility that a leak exists which only opens once hot...... that is much harder to find and it's best to only conclude that once if passes both the leak-down and the cooling system pressure test yet continues to use coolant.

 

GD

 

They actually told me that they "visually confirmed that coolant and oil was leaking by seeing the residue." I haven't noticed it using much coolant. I'll check in the morning though. I definitely haven't noticed it running at all hot. Even when I replaced the radiator it wasn't overheating, just warmer than normal.

[GeneralDisorder]

They claim an external leak by "residue"..... sounds like a job for the Subaru Coolant Conditioner. Doesn't sound like a huge problem to me. Sounds like they are trying to drum up some work. I question their motives in recommending a gasket job for a small leak such as this would seem to be. If its not enough to drip on the ground then toss in the conditioner and monitor it.

 

GD

[meghpie]

Well, to be fair they didn't outright recommend the job, just told me that there's know way of knowing how long it would last and that it could be a month or a year. I've heard the coolant conditioner gums up something- the heater core? radiator? and that it can be a problem in cold climates- have you heard that?

[GeneralDisorder]

I don't know about cold climate's and the conditioner - it won't clog anything as long as you keep the system full. It only hardens in the presence of air. I have two bottles of the stuff in my Forester and it's just fine.

 

GD

[TomRhere]

Have to ask;

How old are the heater hoses?

 

Reason for asking;

Few years back I bought a Subie with supposed bad head gasket. Owner was shown the "residue" on the DS head.

Get it home and was doing some checking when I noticed steam from heater hoses.

Sure enough, they were weeping coolant.

New hoses, and we were golden.

[meghpie]

Hmmm, they did say one of the radiator hoses was "crunchy." Why they didn't replace it 4 months ago when they put the radiator in is beyond me. I may have to get my hands dirty tomorrow and poke around in there. I am an utter, complete, total newbie. Be gentle!

 

If I decide to go the conditioner route, would I get that at the dealership?

[meghpie]

Definitely leaking coolant. I'll have to check where it's coming from, but it was dripping when I checked this morning. I'll check the levels before I leave here- wasn't running hot.

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes - the conditioner is from the dealer - it's about $1.50 for a bottle.

 

Never a bad idea to replace suspect hoses.

 

Try and trace down that leak if you can. Good pictures will help us to direct you to possible sources.....

 

GD

[meghpie]

Well.

The underside of the car is just a mess. There looks to be some leakage around the radiator outlet hose. There's also quite a bit of oil spattered about, and the coolant as well- not a tiny leak. I'm going to try to find out where I should be looking for an external head leak and take some more pictures. To be honest I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at but it looks bad. I'll post the pictures later to see if anyone can make sense of it.

[GeneralDisorder]

If you have a pressure washer or can go to one of those self-service car washes you can wash the underside of engine bay to get a better idea. Also a couple cans of brake-cleaner and some rag/paint brush work can do wonders.

 

GD

[meghpie]

Would liquid wrench be okay for cleaning?

Here's some (crappy) photos. Off to take some more.

[GeneralDisorder]

You definitely have a bad lower radiator hose and that's the major leak I see.

 

Job #1 is to replace both your radiator hoses. Then clean and start checking for these phantom head gasket leaks. In one picture you got a corner of both the oil pan (definitely leaking oil there) and the head gasket - head gasket looked dry on that corner. If you could get more of the engine block where the head mates to the block that would be swell.

 

Liquid Wrench is not a cleaning product - it's more for loosening rusted bolts, etc. Brake cleaner is a degreaser/cleaner and will help loosen and dissolve oil/dirt/etc.

 

GD

[meghpie]

You definitely have a bad lower radiator hose and that's the major leak I see.

 

Job #1 is to replace both your radiator hoses. Then clean and start checking for these phantom head gasket leaks. In one picture you got a corner of both the oil pan (definitely leaking oil there) and the head gasket - head gasket looked dry on that corner. If you could get more of the engine block where the head mates to the block that would be swell.

 

Liquid Wrench is not a cleaning product - it's more for loosening rusted bolts, etc. Brake cleaner is a degreaser/cleaner and will help loosen and dissolve oil/dirt/etc.

 

GD

 

Sounds good. I'll get more pics tomorrow morning. I know Liquid Wrench isn't a cleaning product but I keep it on hand to degrease my vintage sewing machines so I thought it might work in a pinch. Thanks again for your patience and help! Back to Organic Chemisty- brutal test tomorrow! I've been putting it off, studying Subarus instead. Tomorrow I'll grab some brake cleaner too. So I'll need some hose and clamps too...I picked up a basic set of tools, embarrassed that I didn't already have one.

[Cougar]

After seeing your pictures the oil leaks don't seem too bad to me. You should be able to get by if there isn't any internal leaks. The fitting under the alternator is definately leaking. I'm not sure about other spots but it does seem there may be more areas.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Cougar

[meghpie]

Yep, it's like a sieve under there! I'm going to replace the radiator hoses possibly this weekend, although I was hoping to find them cheaper than 36 bucks, but with shipping they're all close to that. (for both)

I'm a little more familiar with what I'm looking at the oil pan does seem to be leaking. The requires the engine out, or at least lifted right? I'm hoping that is not be too bad as I probably won't be able to do that.

Beyond that I'm hoping to learn to do the timing belt and oil pump sometime soon. Looks like we're getting a friend's minivan so I can tinker on the subie without a fast time limit. I have a heated garage too, so it'll be a fun winter.