update- AT oil light on and car wont start.

[tenderfootblue]

Hello everyone, I am new here and hope this can help me save some money on diag. time and get my car rolling again. I drive a 1996 Legacy Outback 2.5 with auto transmission. While driving home the car died when I came to a stop. After waiting about five minutes it started again but the AT oil temp light came on then went off when I began to drive. However I didnt make it a mile and the engine died again. After letting the car sit then start again (2x over 12 hours) I finally got the car home and now it sits in my garage and wont start. The light comes on and stays on when the key is in the on position. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Edited May 9, 2010 by tenderfootblue
Update status of car

[idosubaru]

Any check engine light?

 

The 16 times flashing at start up is the transmission computers equivalent of the "check engine light". You need to find out what that code is. The procedure to extra the code has been covered on here, you'll want to search for that. It's convoluted and some folks can't get it to work, only suggestion I can make is to try it about 10 or 20 times and hope you get it to flash the code at you. Not sure why Subaru makes this one so annoying...the Check engine, ABS, and SRS air bag codes are easy but this one is Pandora's Box.

 

General info about the car would help too - mileage, general tune up - have the spark plugs, wires, air filter ever been replaced? Did the car sit for a long period of time, did it run perfectly for the 5 years prior to this?

[tenderfootblue]

I dont have the history on the car. I bought it at auction two weeks ago and just started to drive it last week. The check engine light came on Monday and the problem with the AT oil temp light came on Friday. Here is the info I have other than that. The car has 129000 miles, all fluids are full and not burnt nor do they raise any red flags. The rear of the car seems to bind a bit when turning or driving at low speeds (under 10 mph). When it will start the car runs great.

[Rooster2]

Engine starting problem and AT oil light problem are two separate problems. I suspect changing spark plugs and plug wires would be a good place to start.

 

Pulling codes is really helpful too.

[idosubaru]

Okay ,now we're getting somewhere. Your best bet is to give us good info like that in the future and we can help you out. Bad information is like a bad mechanic, you'll never get what you want....

 

Why are you attributing your car not starting to the AT light? They are not going to be related.

 

Your binding is torque bind and is what is causing your AT light to flash on start up.

 

Your check engine light is probably the cause of your no-start but it could be plenty of things. Rather than guess it's best to read the code. Advanced, Auto Zone, and lots of other national chains read them for free. Best bet is the $30 ones off ebay so you can do it yourself for the next couple decades. You'll need to have the code read and get back to us, it's going to be hard to guess.

 

Unless you have spare parts, but that's doubtful given what you've told us so far. Only takes a couple minutes to swap coil packs, igniter, MAF, and crank/cam sensors. That's what I've done before, but I've got boxes of parts lying around.

[tenderfootblue]

I agree, but here is the coincidence. The AT oil temp light came on while trying to restart after it died the first time and continues to light when trying to restart. It stays on when the key is in the on position but has gone away when I have been able to get the car to fire. The car fired four times after the initial shut down but now it will turn over now but not run. It just sputters for about three seconds and the light flashes and the vehicle wont start.

[idosubaru]

Yep, that's all completely normal. Like I said, your AT light and non-start are not related.

 

The AT light, by design, only flashes when the car is first started, it won't stay on even if there is a problem. It's inherently different than the check engine light in that way. The check engine light comes on and stays on with a problem. The AT light flashes at start up and then never comes on again until you try to star the car again.

 

So when your car died, you keep trying to restart and telling the TCU to keep spitting that code out with every crank.

 

That's how it's designed and that's how they all do it.

 

You'll find your problem with the check engine light or a sensor/coil/igniter, not with the trans.

 

So back to where we were - best starting place is the check engine light. And whatever code you get will probably be covered well here already. You're likely to encounter something very common.

Edited May 2, 2010 by grossgary

[tenderfootblue]

Thanks for all or your insight. I have been cruising about the different threads here and getting educated as I have been checking in on my issue here. I think this site will be a great help. It also keeps me motivated to fix my subaru. There are a lot of people doing great things with their cars. thanks again.

[idosubaru]

yeah, it's nice. this site has more combined experience, and readily available, than any shop in the world. it's a fantastic resource for anyone wanting to work on a subaru.

 

your issues should/might be simple. the no start is usually something simple, just annoying to track down.

 

the torque bind, you should spend some time reading some quality threads about. there's a number of possible causes and a few options for repairing it, some that are simple.

 

for now - put your FWD fuse in so you're not getting the binding which can cause more damage. although if your Duty C is failing that fuse might not work. i'm sure you'll read all about that in the other torque bind threads.

 

good luck!! now go tear up that subaru and tell us how good it feels to fix it!!

[nipper]

One little detail everyone is ommiting. The Tranny light blinks for the the last previous cycle of the car. i think this is coincidence.

 

Now on to the bigger issues. How many miles are on this car. You need suck squish boom to make a car run. It is easy to check for boom. See if you have any spark. Suck and squish are effected by the timing belt. The car dying at speed is usually disturbing, but for now lets start with the basics.

 

And a tuneup wouldnt hurt, but lets confirm the spark first.

 

nipper

[tenderfootblue]

The car has 129000 miles on it. I used a code reader earlier in the week to see what the check engine light was and I got a code p0400 emission gas recirculation (is that pointing towards the EGR valve) and a second code pending but was not able to view that code, may have been because I was unfamiliar with the code reader.

.....from the responses i am getting on here and what I have been reading I am feeling like I need to change plugs and wires and possibly other parts of the ignition to begin to address the check engine light, then change drain and change my ATF to begin and address the AT oil temp light.

Can you explain the suck, squish, and boom?

[johnceggleston]

Can you explain the suck, squish, and boom?

 

air fuel intake, compression, spark, you have to have all 3 to get an engine to run.

[nipper]

EGR won't keep the car from starting, it may cause driveability issues. i had that and it gave me hesitation, and it turned out to be the backpressure transducer.

 

nipper

[idosubaru]

One little detail everyone is ommiting. The Tranny light blinks for the the last previous cycle of the car. i think this is coincidence.

i had that one covered, we're past that now.

 

there is a check engine light, that's a good place to start, you need to get all the codes somehow. I've never heard of an EGR causing a no-start, so I don't think that's it, EGR codes are very common and mostly benign so I'd put that off for now.

 

You got it right on the ATF drain and refills, that's the best first step. Outside of basics like making sure tires all match in size, tread depth, and pressure.

 

And putting the FWD fuse in will tell us more about what's wrong. If it gets rid of the torque bind or doesn't will tell us if it's clutches or Duty solenoid and prognosis for fixing. Duty C won't be fixed by fluid flushes.

[tenderfootblue]

I bought my Haynes and Chiltons manuals last night and will be considering buying a code reader off ebay like GG suggested. I will be able to tear into it next weekend hopefully. It's a good thing that I didnt sell my truck yet. I didnt think the P0400 had anything to do with not starting, but its that pending code that I was not able to locate on the reader that I am curious about. So, as soon as I get it to start I will put a fuse in the FWD and start my diag. for the bind at that point. Keep the good ideas flowing that way when I start in on it I dont run into a wall with my lack of experience in the middle of this project. I will read up on the threads pertaining to ATF change so I get it right the first time.

[nipper]

Borrow or rent a code reader from an autoparts store, as sometimes they are more finetuned then something off ebay. i love my scantool but sometimes there are codes it just locks up on, or says there is a fault but then there is no code (like my recent EGR valve).

 

 

nipper

[tenderfootblue]

So here is the update on the car. I let the car sit all week with the battery cables disconnected. I tried to start the car early on in the week with no luck. But, I was able to turn the car over today on the first turn of the key after reconnecting the cables. The check engine light and AT oil temp light were not present. So, I installed the FWD fuse and drove the car about a mile and a half. The car ran fine and did not die. The torque bind is still there and after I parked in the garage and turned the key off the car will not start. The check engine light and AT oil light came back.

...on a better note I did install my new driverside master pwr window switch without any problems. I bought the switch off ebay for 11.50! not much but my first victory on this new project.

[nipper]

You have torque bind and the clutch pack needs to be replaced. When it doesnt go away with the FWD fuse, you either have a failed solenoid, a dying solenoid, a bad clutch pack or all of the above.

 

The other problem is now much easier. It sounds like the starter contacts. you do not need to replace the starter. The contacts are replaceable.

 

nipper

[tenderfootblue]

With the torque bind figured out... I will address that when I get the vehicle running. The no start problem is still killing me. Once again I let the car sit all week and I jumped in and turned the key and it fired up...over and over again. I let it idle, the car purred for about five minutes and died. So, I put a code reader on it after it died and its not throwing any codes. The car will not restart, and this is how it has been behaving since it first died on me. Could this be some type of vacuum line or emission sensor faulting and telling the ecu to shut down?

[lucid_door]

Crank sensor failing when it warms up? I had a Sebring a couple years ago drive me crazy for a day with random dies-while-drivings when it was warmed up; it never once set a crank sensor code, but on one drive I finally caught it hiccup on the scope pattern before it died again.

[tenderfootblue]

The local subaru mechanic said that it may be a fuel pump. Seems like that would explain the dying after running smooth. The first problem I had was the car died as I rolled to a stop in a turn lane.

Since Then it has been doing this thing where it starts after sitting for a while and runs fine for a few minutes then just quietly dies like it may be losing fuel.

[hohieu]

Sounds plausible: electrical coils such as that in your fuel pump will often short out only at operating temperature. The same is true for ignition coils.

[tenderfootblue]

I am checking out replacement fuel pumps for my 96 2.5 obw, I am going to replace that and the ignition coil. I tested the coil and its resistance was not in the .5-.7 range that chiltons recomends. As for the fuel pumps...are the cars picky about oem replacement or aftermarket? The new aftermarket and the used oem pumps seem to be about the same price. Any recomendations?

[Fairtax4me]

Hook up a voltmeter to the crank position sensor and check resistance across the pins. Should be between 1k -4k ohms. You can also probe the wires in the harness and watch the voltage reading while cranking. It should jump from 0 - 5v repeatedly. If the reading sits steady the sensor is bad.

[nipper]

Hook up a voltmeter to the crank position sensor and check resistance across the pins. Should be between 1k -4k ohms. You can also probe the wires in the harness and watch the voltage reading while cranking. It should jump from 0 - 5v repeatedly. If the reading sits steady the sensor is bad.

 

 

Resistance is one way, but you need both tests. You are looking for an AC pulse as the engine is cranked (which is the FSm way of testing it). It creates a pulse as the toothed "gear" passes under it.