2010 Legacy temp guage

[jp1gt]

I was wondering how long Subaru has chinced out not putting a temp gauge in their cars? We are kind of interested in a new Legacy and was shocked that it had no gauge!! They gave me the Cadillac owner answer that it is easier to see a light. Most Subaru owners are smarter than that. I would not be able to figure out that my engine was not burning up in my 2001 if I did not have a gauge. Is there a retrofit to replace the useless economy gauge?

[idosubaru]

My thoughts are the same, I would want the gauge. Only a few years out from EJ25 headgasket issues? Seems like it gives you less info and more power to the mechanics, not what you need to combat the shady folks.

 

I can sort of see the logic and maybe they're forward thinking? Maybe that's where they'll all be in 10 years? As an end user you still have something to look at. The chances of ever needing it are extremely small and if you ever did, the light will come on. So functionally there isn't much at stake. If they finally have one temperature sensor, rather than two like they've had in years past (one for the ECU and one for the gauge) then that's more robust having fewer parts, wiring, connectors, and sensors to fail. But that doesn't make you feel much better.

 

I don't know when the design changed but dashes are easily interchanged, folks add tachometers that way to older legacy's. I've done it a bunch, but unlikely to want to do that with a new car. I'm doubtful you'll be able to "just add a temp gauge". You can add an aftermarket temp gauge, that's rather easy though I'm not sure the best way to make it look good/stock.

 

On the older dashes the options were sometimes visible with the dash removed - wonder where the temp gauge is on the most recent models with the gauge and if yours has the outline/space there?

[bheinen74]

This could be to decrease the number of HG problems reported by the consumer. Now only the dealer will really know how warm the engine has been getting, therefor less HG warranty repair cost, and Subaru can finally say they put the ej25 HG problem to bed, with them......or not.

Look for the guage to return in future models, enough people are complaining it will return

 

This is just sort of how car manufacturers do things, in the past they went from guage, to idiot lights, back to guage, then back to light only. Cheap end models usually got idiot lights in the 60's higher cost models got clusters. Someday they will return to what most people want.

[nipper]

this isnt chincing out, this is due to limited real-estate on the dash. The fuel consumptio meter is a federal required thing, as more and more cars are having them, and mfg's would not do somehting like that voluntairily.

 

But i will agree with anew dash design they could have squeezed it in someplace, even in the LCD display.

 

nipper

[hankosolder2]

You can monitor your engine temperature with a ScanGauge II or similar. It will read the data from the OBD II port- it'll also let you monitor lots of other parameters, read error codes etc. Don't you have one permanently attached, Nipper?

 

 

Nathan

 

BTW, most newer cars WITH a temp gauge use a "buffered" one. Basically, the gauge doesn't read out the actual engine temp, it's driven off the engine computer with programmed outputs for different temp ranges. It points to "C" when the engine is really cold, will read in the middle for a quite wide range of engine temps and will only go to "H" when the engine is cooking. The reason for this is to reduce DS owner complaints about the needle sitting 1/16" above the center on a hot day, etc.

[nipper]

Semi-permenitly. It has to be unplugged for inspection and i have used it in others cars (with a little effort to get it out).

 

Yes temp gauges have been buffered after electric fans started being used widespread. Customers were complaining that there cars would start to get hot then the temp needle would drop.

 

I don't consider it a biggie when it comes to monitoring the engine temp.

 

nipper

[bheinen74]

at least they give us TPMS that works terribly

 

lmao

[frag]

The regular temp gauge on my 96 Brighton - no connection to the ECU - is «buffered». The «normal» position of the gauge needle corresponds to a range of at least 20 degrees.

I think «normal» corresponds to the range of temps between opening and closing of the thermostat.

[ShawnW]

at least they give us TPMS that works terribly

 

lmao

 

The NHTSA (Government) gave us this rather quickly I might add. But its a valuable system when observed but of course it turns into a check engine light for most of the idiots I have seen.

 

Quoted from the NHTSA study:

At the time the survey was done, there were 207 million vehicles on the road. An estimated 57 million vehicles, have at least one tire 25 percent or more below placard at any time.

 

If that light gets you to check your tires and you find all 4 are exactly right then you have a valid complaint. I never found one at the dealership that didnt have a tire that was at least 1 pound below the door card. This is the easist thing to check on the car IMO. 1 tool, no popping the hood and it helps with gas mileage, drivability and safety. I found a lot of nails and screws thanks to this light and if they hadn't been plugged and patched people would have been buying a full set of tires instead of paying $8 for a flat repair.

 

I suggest you do a little more research before you jump to conclusions, blame Subaru, and complain about a system that is about as far from going away as the cars themselves.

[ShawnW]

This could be to decrease the number of HG problems reported by the consumer. Now only the dealer will really know how warm the engine has been getting, therefor less HG warranty repair cost, and Subaru can finally say they put the ej25 HG problem to bed, with them......or not.

Look for the guage to return in future models, enough people are complaining it will return

 

This is just sort of how car manufacturers do things, in the past they went from guage, to idiot lights, back to guage, then back to light only. Cheap end models usually got idiot lights in the 60's higher cost models got clusters. Someday they will return to what most people want.

 

Oh I am sorry but idiots are contributing to the HG.

They ignore the temp gauge.

They don't understand that when it reads a little higher than normal they should get it checked.

They try to drive to the next exit, dealer, or town when the gauge is pegged.

The light is truly brilliant. That bright red indicator is idiot proof. If you keep driving it with the red temp indicator lit you are a moron.

Best of all those that think they dont EVER need to change their coolant, oil or fluids should definately get head gaskets covered under warranty.

The dealer isn't going to know any more than the customer how hot the car has been. You are assuming there is some sort of black box recorder on the engine computer but at the present there isn't.

"Most people want" I beg to differ. Most people don't want to have any lights or warnings come on. They don't want to keep tabs on what is going on. The people here are a select few that monitor their car carefully but the general public just wants to get in, turn the key and have it make it there.

Theres a reason the Outback isn't offered as a Turbo Model anymore. Because the majority of the people buying the top of the line Outback were not good at maintenance compared to other Turbo engine owners. The H6 model is slightly easier to maintain and has had less warranty claims. The Outback XT owners were blowing engines and turbochargers far more often than Impreza owners were by percentage. Doesn't make me happy either but its life.

[bheinen74]

you pointed out the benefits of the tpms system, I should have explained what it is i don't like about it, that is the ability to easily swap to different rims with snow tires and not get the CEL.

Otherwise yes, most people never know they have low tires, and this tells them. I check my tire pressure at every oil change, so i do not need the light. For majority of people they do not check their tire pressures themselves this will help.

 

shawn makes the most sense on here.

Edited May 5, 2010 by bheinen74

[ShawnW]

You can monitor your engine temperature with a ScanGauge II or similar. It will read the data from the OBD II port- it'll also let you monitor lots of other parameters, read error codes etc. Don't you have one permanently attached, Nipper?

 

 

Nathan

 

BTW, most newer cars WITH a temp gauge use a "buffered" one. Basically, the gauge doesn't read out the actual engine temp, it's driven off the engine computer with programmed outputs for different temp ranges. It points to "C" when the engine is really cold, will read in the middle for a quite wide range of engine temps and will only go to "H" when the engine is cooking. The reason for this is to reduce DS owner complaints about the needle sitting 1/16" above the center on a hot day, etc.

 

You can still add a Temp gauge its not like these cars crossed some line in the sand where an aftermarket gauge couldn't be mounted somewhere. Not on the pillar anymore (airbags) but clever people can do this. Its just a matter of an electronic sending unit, a wire and a gauge mounted somewhere. The light is pretty cool as its a definitive IM HOT indicator not some hmmm im getting warm sort of thing. Pegged and a RED hot light are two pretty similar things but the majority of people will notice the red light faster than a gauge pointed up.

[johnceggleston]

You are assuming there is some sort of black box recorder on the engine computer but at the present there isn't.

 

how hard would this be to create with a scangage or similar, plus a computer hard drive??

[nipper]

how hard would this be to create with a scangage or similar, plus a computer hard drive??

 

Why?

[johnceggleston]

Why?

 

so when my wife says "it just quit running come and get me" i'd know what really happened.

[nipper]

so when my wife says "it just quit running come and get me" i'd know what really happened.

 

That won't help. Trouble codes and the ECU are just tools. You still need to properly diagnose the issue.

 

I dont think you want to spend 1500.00 for a car-puter or try to hide a laptop that is continously running. The ECU does have more codes, but if it is a hard code it will be stored.

[ShawnW]

Subaru does have the ability to create a freeze frame when the car runs and drives with its Select Monitor 3 but they can't pull a flash of what it was doing but once its dead. There are 2 exceptions to this but there isn't any need to go into those details they won't affect anybody.

 

Also want to add that it might come across as me picking on a user in this thread and I mean nothing by it I just couldn't help but quote a couple things and ellaborate.

[nipper]

Subaru does have the ability to create a freeze frame when the car runs and drives with its Select Monitor 3 but they can't pull a flash of what it was doing but once its dead. There are 2 exceptions to this but there isn't any need to go into those details they won't affect anybody.

 

Also want to add that it might come across as me picking on a user in this thread and I mean nothing by it I just couldn't help but quote a couple things and ellaborate.

 

:-p

[jp1gt]

Thank you for all the comments, got some different perspectives. As an ex auto mechanic, I still like a light. Must be to costly to have a gauge and a light like the gas gauges have. Next time we go car shopping I will see if other makes feel the same way!

[nipper]

Thank you for all the comments, got some different perspectives. As an ex auto mechanic, I still like a light. Must be to costly to have a gauge and a light like the gas gauges have. Next time we go car shopping I will see if other makes feel the same way!

 

 

I noticed at the Autoshow it is a mixed bag. Some went to lights, some are still using gauges. I think it may be the desgn cycle.

 

I remember my Uncles Chevy when i was little had a cold light and a hot light.

 

nipper

[Subarupusher]

Temperature has never been an issue on Subarus that are well maintained in my family. The idiot light works just as well. My experience with hot engines in various other cars is that your nose is the best sensor. It detects coolant leaks and the hot oil smell is usually accompanied by elevated engine temps.

 

The tpms works really well and helped point out the 3 inch screw in my tire before the tire looked flat. The result is the car went straight to the dealer for a free flat repair rather than going flat on the freeway on my usual morning commute.