EA81 water in cylinder

[aiiadict]

water in both cylinders on passenger side of vehicle.

 

I pulled the manifold and head and could not find any

obvious problems.. mating surface of head isn't %100

flat, varies about 1mm.

 

there is no water in oil. the intake port on the head

does NOT show rust (rusty water in cooling system)

 

the head was put on with gasket + formagasket, torqued

properly.

 

at one point I tried to start the vehicle and it had vapor

lock. no signs of steam in exhaust. I pulled the plug,

cranked the water out, ran it.

 

next time I tried to start it, vapor lock. Seems like water

is leaking into the head when engine is sitting, off.

 

any ideas?

 

Rich

[NoahDL88]

1mm on a cylinder head is like climbing Everest

 

Could be a cracked head?

[aiiadict]

1mm on a cylinder head is like climbing Everest

 

Could be a cracked head?

 

I see 1 crack in the head, in the exhaust port. The aluminum

comes to a "peak" in the center of the port, where the

exhaust passages meet. The crack does not appear to go

very deep, and I don't see how water could be getting in

cylinder from there..

 

Where should I look for cracks? Remove the valves and look

under them?

 

should there have been obvious signs of a leak on the intake

manifold gaskets? same for sign of leak on head gasket?

 

I couldn't find any signs of a leak, but don't know if there

would be.

 

Could water somehow come through cylinder walls? I put

the pistons on bottom dead center and feel with my fingers,

they're smooth.

 

you say 1mm is too big a variance on mating surface? Ok,

I'm going to either have this one machined or get a new

(used) head.

 

Rich

[NoahDL88]

a crack between the intake and exhaust valves is usually nothing to worry about. every head I've taken off has had that crack with no issues.

 

Its hard to diag over the internet, I'd see if you can find a new head, and go from there.

 

I'm not 100% but the solid and hydraulic lifter heads may be different, so you may have to make sure you get the right one.

[GeneralDisorder]

1mm is INSANELY warped. But if you aren't using a machinist's rule that's been surface ground flat to measure the flatness then it's not a valid measurement. Most things we take as flat in daily life (even a metal machinists square for example) are not flat enough to use as measureing insturments. The allowable warpage for a cylinder head is about .005", which is about 0.125mm, or approximately 1/8 as much as you measured. If they truely are warped by 1mm then you will have to throw them away. You can't grind them enough to correct that. .020" is the max you can take off per the spec and that's only going to get you 1/2 of where you need to be. But again - I doubt your measurement and your insturments as I have never encountered one that warped. If I did I would throw the whole engine the scrap pile because the amount of abuse it took to get that screwed up would make it an unwise investment.

 

The leakage was probably a bad manifold gasket although you say you used formagasket on the head gasket? . That's a no-no and also a probable failure point. Head gaskets are installed 100% dry on Subaru engines. Always.

 

GD

Edited May 5, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[aiiadict]

water in both cylinders on passenger side of vehicle.

 

more information:

 

I actually measured variance in level of mating surface, it is about .005 inches. Is this ok?

 

I pulled the valves out. I could see where water had obviously been pooled up in the intake port (rust marks on back of intake valves indicate water level)...

 

There was a bit of rust on the back side of the exhaust valve.

 

The crack that I had seen before is actually a mark from the mold during manufacturing.

 

I cannot see any cracks in the intake or exhaust ports.

 

I'm beginning to think it must have been a leaky manifold gasket (although no rust marks in intake port on top of head, just rust on back side of intake valves)

 

I'm thinking I'll put a new head gasket, new manifold gaskets, and put it back together and see if all is well.

 

I double checked the oil at the dipstick, it looks like oil. Would I be able to see water in the oil if engine hasn't run in about 12 months? IE does it need to be churned up to see the water?

 

any more advice?

 

Rich

[aiiadict]

forgot to mention: I have never got this engine over about 200 degree F. It has reconditioned heads, new bearings, new rings.

[GeneralDisorder]

Rust will not form in the presence of coolant - the glycol solution will inhibit rust formation so looking for rust marks is probably not going to tell you much.

 

I agree - put it back together with dry head gaskets, and OEM manifold gaskets (torque to 12 ft/lbs).

 

GD

[987687]

more information:

 

I actually measured variance in level of mating surface, it is about .005 inches. Is this ok?

 

I pulled the valves out. I could see where water had obviously been pooled up in the intake port (rust marks on back of intake valves indicate water level)...

 

There was a bit of rust on the back side of the exhaust valve.

 

The crack that I had seen before is actually a mark from the mold during manufacturing.

 

I cannot see any cracks in the intake or exhaust ports.

 

I'm beginning to think it must have been a leaky manifold gasket (although no rust marks in intake port on top of head, just rust on back side of intake valves)

 

I'm thinking I'll put a new head gasket, new manifold gaskets, and put it back together and see if all is well.

 

I double checked the oil at the dipstick, it looks like oil. Would I be able to see water in the oil if engine hasn't run in about 12 months? IE does it need to be churned up to see the water?

 

any more advice?

 

Rich

If you think there's water in the bottom of your oil pan, DON'T RUN IT! Drain the oil and put fresh oil in. You should after sitting for 12 months anyway.

[aiiadict]

I agree - put it back together with dry head gaskets, and OEM manifold gaskets (torque to 12 ft/lbs).

 

GD

 

I ordered and received a new head gasket.

 

Interesting, this is very different than the first gasket I put on...

 

the first (which appears may have leaked, or it may have been manifold gasket) was flat black colored, looked kind of like charcoal. It felt rough/uneven surface.

 

the one I just bought is deep dark red/brown, shiny surface, feels like

soft rubber coating.