93 Impreza AWD Tranny noise?

[Murthius]

Hi, looking for some tranny help. My 93 Impreza LS AWD EJ18 automatic recently started making a loud whine when decelerating. the faster I'm going when I take my foot off the gas, the louder/faster/higher pich the sound is. I took it to a mechanic who says the tranny is pretty much about to die within 5-10 miles and that I shouldn't drive it, and is letting me keep it at his garage for free until I figure out what I'm going to do about it. Just wondering if anyone has any experience or knowledge with this?

 

A little history on the tranny: I had a torque bind issue which resulted in the rear diff blowing out. got a new r. diff on and torque bind is still there, with new tires all alligned and rotated and the fluids topped off so I'm assuming the torque bind has no oter cause but the Duty C/transfer case. It wasn't long after putting the new rear diff on ( only a couple hundred miles at most) that the tranny started whining.

 

As far as I know the rest of the car is in great condition and I do have about $2000 in it already so I'm wondering if it's worth it to take my chances with a new tranny (if thats what I have to do) or maybe give up on her? Thanks for any info

[idosubaru]

To determine the whining, find out if the noise is up front or more center/rear-ward.

 

Driving with torque bind is a bad idea, you're putting strain all through your drivetrain and transmissions.

 

Have you tried installing the FWD fuse, that should be the first step. If that doesnt' work and you insist on driving it like this, at least remove the rear half of the driveshaft so you're essentially in FWD.

 

First step - install FWD fuse. If that works then your clutches are bad.

 

If the FWD fuse doesn't work then your Duty C is probably bad.

 

Installing the FWD fuse...or if that doesn't work...just removing the rear half of the driveshaft will allow you to run in FWD. Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll even keep the trans from whining and failing.

 

Yes a used transmission is fine. These transmissions are reliable enough that used is a fine option. There's little demand so they can be found cheap. Change the fluid and don't drive it with torque bind.

[Murthius]

Yeah, I've tried installing the FWD fuse but with that installed the torque bind is still there and the tranny wont shift out of first.

 

The whining sounds like it's more from the center.

 

If I were to remove the rear driveshaft and the whining stops, could I drive it like that permanently until I get the tranny serviced, or is this more of a temporary bubblegum fix that I should use but to get the car from point to point?

 

Thanks for the info.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Murthius

[Olnick]

The whining sounds like it's more from the center.

 

I ain't an automatic type guy so someone correct me if I'm wrong . . . but that's exactly where torque bind happens, in "the center" of the drive train. Specifically in the clutches in the extension housing behind the tranny.

 

That extension housing and clutches can be changed out relatively easily (you don't have to drop the entire tranny.) Try a search, it's been discussed a lot. If you're lucky you might even be able to fix the problem by dressing the faces of the old clutch plates.

 

At any rate, good luck.

[94Loyale]

You won't be able to remove the rear driveshaft and drive it because you'll lose all your trans fluid. Unless you are talking about removing the rear half of the shaft right behind the carrier bearing, I'd imagine that would work? I'm not positive whether you can do that or not. But it's not going to fix your problem. If you install the FWD fuse and still have torque bind, then the duty c is def shot. It's not too difficult of a job to do really. And it is absolutely worth it to change out the solenoid and the clutch plates at the same time, I don't care what anyone says. I don't enjoy doing a job twice. With a lift it's cake work

[Murthius]

Awesome info, thanks. Anyone know where I can get my hands on the solenoid and plates?

[idosubaru]

Yes, you can drive with the rear half of the driveshaft removed and drive around all day long in FWD. I've done it before and others have too.

 

You may have damaged the rear output shaft hub, I've heard of those breaking before due to torque bind. It's the rear most section of the trans gearing essentially that is the linkage to the rear clutches. Torque bind stresses it. That might be the noise?

 

I would attempt the driveshaft removal and see if that alleviates the noise. Or just replace the Duty C and see what happens. It's not terribly hard to do and can be done in the car, no need to remove trans. There are some REALLY good threads with pictures on this board, search for those. Removing the exhaust is the most annoying part, hopefully it's not too rusty?

Edited May 9, 2010 by grossgary

[johnceggleston]

if the torque bind was still there after the rear diff swap there is a good chance the diff wasn't bad, but that is water under the bridge.

 

who diagnosed the bad rear diff? who replaced it? was the same shop who says the trans is doomed in 10 minutes. where did the new diff come from? what is the ratio of the new diff?

 

i would check to see if it is the correct ratio before going any further. search "diffcheck" and follow the instructions in the oldest thread. the car will always bind if the rear diff does not match. diff are pretty hardy and do not fail often.

 

you probably do need a transfer clutch repair since you had torque bind and never addressed it, but i'm not sure i'd trust the shop that replaced the diff when it was really the transfer clutch. if that is what really happened.

 

check to see if the diffs match. remove the rear section of drive shaft and see if it still whines. if yes, i would swap the trans. you could repair the transfer clutch, but if it still whines after the repair then what.

 

but the whining will probably be gone. and then you have the question of repair or replace.

 

by the way, my son has been driving a 95 lego awd with the rear section of shaft removed for the last 30k miles, now at 200k+.

[zyewdall]

 

who diagnosed the bad rear diff? who replaced it? was the same shop who says the trans is doomed in 10 minutes. where did the new diff come from? what is the ratio of the new diff?

 

i would check to see if it is the correct ratio before going any further. search "diffcheck" and follow the instructions in the oldest thread. the car will always bind if the rear diff does not match. diff are pretty hardy and do not fail often.

 

you probably do need a transfer clutch repair since you had torque bind and never addressed it, but i'm not sure i'd trust the shop that replaced the diff when it was really the transfer clutch. if that is what really happened.

 

My thoughts too... if it had torque bind to begin with, why wasn't that addressed by the shop that put in the new diff? And, it does kind of sound like it might be the wrong ratio of diff

[Gloyale]

You're rear diff won't "go bad" from torque bind. they hosed you.

 

They possibly put the wrong diff ratio in, but not likely.....I've seen that with automatic cars and they are pretty much undriveable, espescially with Torque bind.

 

Besides, ......whining during deceleration is from backlash in the FRONT diff. That is where all the load is. It does most of the drive transfer forward and pretty much all of the reverse load on these autos.

 

 

I HIGHLY DOUBT that it will blow up in 5 miles. more like 5000+ before it even gets much louder.

 

(This http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=106831&highlight=front+diff H6 Outback had a progressively louder front diff wine for years and was still highway driving before servicing)

 

 

So......I'd say first get you're car back from the clueless guy that replace the diff and says now your car is gonna blow up looking at it.

 

A good knowledgeable subaru guy could repair the pinion and diff bearings, and install a new duty c for labor(?) plus about $400-500 in parts, bearings, gaskets and seals. Spendy, but in the end you will have new parts on a known good shifting trans.

 

Or.......... call around for prices on a good replacement transmission(he is right, with a bad front diff pinion and Duty C, used trans is gonna be a bit cheaper option, but you get what you pay for and used can be ready to break or shift poorly or who knows what:rolleyes:..........)

[ericem]

What's your location?

 

Funny my previous tranny had a similar sound. When I went to drain the fluids before removing the tranny, i found a good couple inches worth of a dipstick attached to the magnet for the front diff that was definitely shredded..... Either way even if you fix the rear transfer case which is creating torque bind, still need a new tranny as the front diff might be damaged. Probably better off at this point to go to another shop, even a dealership to be honest...

[Murthius]

Haha, let me rephrase the outcome of the old diff. It literally popped. As I was driving there was a loud bang, the wheels locked up, and there was a golf ball sized hole in the back of the diff. That is the reason the shop replaced it, it wasn't there for the torque bind.

 

I'm not sure about the ratio but I did make sure I got the diff from the same exact car as mine, 93, ej18, etc.

 

I would hate to do the work on the transfer clutches/solenoid and find out the front diff is bad after all and I have extremely limited funds, so it might have to sit for a while I guess.

 

I'm in southern NH. there is a Subaru dealer not far from me but whenever I talk to them about this stuff they kinda act like they don't know what I'm talking about and want me to bring it in to look at it, but I'm sure it would cost more just for them to look at it than I really want lol.

 

I guess my MAIN concern now is, with this whining sound (which only happens when decelerating), is it really a dumb idea to drive it? I guess I should mention, the day the whining started, I had just started on a 25 mile drive to a friends house when I noticed it. The sound was fairly quiet at first barely noticed a hint of the sound with the radio on, then when I noticed it was making the sound I turned the radio off so I could hear what was going on and it was still pretty quiet. about 20 miles down the road it got MUCH louder and sounds kind of like chewbacka. So the rate at which the sound worsened makes me that much more unsure of if I should drive it, how much I should drive it, and what I should do.

 

Thanks again for all the info guys

[ericem]

Oh in that case probably avoid the dealer. Someone odd to chime in with some good subie shops.

 

If it only does it decelerating might not be a big deal. Does it bind up when you turn tight? Maybe the diff was the wrong one. Do you recall the gear ratio?

[Murthius]

Yeah it binds up when turning still, not sure of the gear ratio, but I did double check with the supplier that it was from an impreza with the same size engine and all.

 

It would be great if anyone knows of a good shop in my area that knows subies, it would be nice to have someone that knows more drive it with me and listen/look at things and point me in the right direction.

[Olnick]

. . . if anyone knows of a good shop in my area . . .

 

No one knows what your area is! Are you in Concord MA, NH, NC, OH or CA?

[idosubaru]

check those gear ratios, subaru was a mess with gear ratios.

[JT95]

For your situation, if funds are limited and you don't have the garage or experience to work on the car yourself, I would think the easiest and cheapest route for you to go would be a used transmission from a salvage yard. If you buy from a legit salvage yard, a trans will have a 60 or 90 day warranty. Not tons of security, but enough to cover you if it has a pre-existing issue. I would assume the trans swap is something any shop could do and not screw up, which might not be the case if you have someone tear into the trans you have.

 

After you determine that it is indeed the trans that is the issue...

[Gloyale]

I would assume the trans swap is something any shop could do and not screw up, which might not be the case if you have someone tear into the trans you have.

 

 

Bad assumption.

 

Inexperienced shops get the torque converter seating wrong all the time.

[Murthius]

 

I'm in southern NH.

 

 

So I'm pretty sure I'm going to look for a tranny, seems like the general consensus here that's going to be my best option. I have this feeling in the back of my mind I'm gonna still have torque bind though haha even though I'm sure thats silly, since I will have replaced everything that would cause it by then!

 

Hopfully when I get the new tranny I'll have an odometer/speedo too hehe, mines been dead the whole time I've had the car and I always meant to go check the cable and such but never got around to it.

 

Now the only thing thats left to do to the car is get the heat going which hopefully only takes a flush.

[Murthius]

This is crazy! I can't find ANY auto trannys. Everything around here is manual and online I found some auto but they are for 2wd cars and too far away for me to get, and they wont ship I guess I should call the local subie dealer and find out how much the clutches and solenoid would be?

[Murthius]

So I was wondering, what exactly would happen if I just drive it how it is? What would fail and what would the effect be when it does? Just wondering hehe