Looking for suggestions on 85 BRAT

[2manetoys]

I recently acquired an 85 Brat with an EA81 (carburated), 4 spd D/R 4WD. and 182K miles on it. The previous owner wasn't very attentive and I'd bet that it sat for a few years. Head gaskets leak, fuel filter is....ahem...... engineered.... in place, needs typical, but not extensive rust replacement work done, new exhaust, replacing rear seal in transmission, lots of little things.

 

 

I've owned and driven and 82 GLF sedan, and 88 Loyale 4WD wagon and a 92 Loyale 4wd Wagon. I didn't do much in way of maintenance on those either and I didn't have the tools, knowledge or budget to do more than replace whatever broke.

 

I've wanted a Brat since I drove the 82 GLF sedan so this is a treat for me. I know that it needs work and that parts are becoming VERY difficult to find (like the dashboard and rear body parts.

 

Basically, I'm torn between restoration and semi customizing it. For example, I REALLY want to put a 5spd Dual range 4WD in it and maybe fix the rust in the bed and put a Rhino lining or other bedliner in it (that's up in the air though) as well as some of the interior creature comforts like the elbow rest that I had in the Loyales that I could easily swap out. Maybe Disc brakes on the rear. Little things.

 

I don't want to Lift it, Swamp it or make any major changes to the exterior of it, but I really miss having 5th gear and if I'm going to put money into it, (which is inevitable on a 25 year old car), I think it should be something that I enjoy. Basically making it a Mild Custom

 

However, I plan on it being my daily driver so extensive downtime (more than 3 days) is not really an option.

 

What do you guys think? Am I expecting too much?

 

Here's a link to a photobucket album with several pics so you see what I'm starting with.

 

85 Brat pics

[bratsrus1]

Hi This is Jerry, 2 things you need for your brat one is a 5 speed dual range tranny and the other is rear disc brakes. I am the guy that makes a 5 speed kit to fit your brat, if your interested let me know. Thanks Jerry

[GeneralDisorder]

The 5 speed is totally an upgrade and will not be frowned upon even by purists if you do it and keep the interior stock (Jerry's kit is excelent for that). NO ONE wants the 4 speeds as they have problems. It's worth it to do the 5 swap.

 

Rear discs as well though if you want them correct you need to install the proportioning valve that goes with them or an aftermarket adjustable.

 

Nothing wrong with either of those upgrades and you will not hurt the value of the Brat to do them.

 

GD

[2manetoys]

Hi This is Jerry, 2 things you need for your brat one is a 5 speed dual range tranny and the other is rear disc brakes. I am the guy that makes a 5 speed kit to fit your brat, if your interested let me know. Thanks Jerry

 

Jerry, I'm Absolutely Interested in all info including prices.

 

right now, I'm more of a part replacer than anything, but I'm eager to learn.

 

Just learned how checking the fit of the Battery cables can save you the price of a Starter! LOL:rolleyes:

 

I have a distinct suspicion that I'll be spending a Lot more time on USMB as I have a lot to learn and there is a very knowledgable crew here.

 

GD, Love the tage below your user ID.

[GeneralDisorder]

Both of those upgrades are straight bolt-on's with Jerry's kit for the transmission. You have to have a driveline custom made or fit the 5 speed's two-peice driveline but if you have one made it's also a bolt-in. It's a pretty simple swap really.

 

Yes - I've earned my title apparently. Seems that I crush "hopes and dreams" around here too often

 

GD

[The Dude Abides]

Another thing that hasnt been suggested yet is upgradeing to peugeot wheels. The wider stance will remove the squishy - dippy feeling i used to get driveing it on the highway. You dont need to get all crazy with tall tires but you get a better selection with the 14 or 15 inch wheel. Not much selection with the stock 13s. It will feel more glued to the road which is great for every day driveing.

[renob123]

Yes - I've earned my title apparently. Seems that I crush "hopes and dreams" around here too often

 

GD

 

Perhaps, but you usually do it with a bitter dose of reality:)

 

2manetoys: I was in a similar situation for a while. One of the upgrades I was most satisfied with was replacing the engine and transmission mounts. Hold off on the transmission mounts in case you do the 5-speed swap, but both pairs can be replaced in less than a day, and they greatly improved my driving experience. At 182k, I'm betting you'll have a similar experience.

 

Jacob

[bratsrus1]

Hi AJ This is Jerry, the kit cost 100.00 pluse shipping. If you want a kit you need to send me your old parts and they are #1 the 4 speed shifter #2 the 4 speed cross member #3 the 4x4 linkage from the 4 speed the part that gose through the rubber boot #4 the 5 speed shifter #5 the 5 speed tranny mounts all 3 of them. With this kit everything remains all stock inside of your brat. Let me know Thanks Jerry

[2manetoys]

Hi AJ This is Jerry, the kit cost 100.00 pluse shipping. If you want a kit you need to send me your old parts and they are #1 the 4 speed shifter #2 the 4 speed cross member #3 the 4x4 linkage from the 4 speed the part that gose through the rubber boot #4 the 5 speed shifter #5 the 5 speed tranny mounts all 3 of them. With this kit everything remains all stock inside of your brat. Let me know Thanks Jerry

 

Jerry,

 

I assume that I need to find the 5 spd D/R tranny first though correct?

 

Anyone have any ideas on where I can find a replacement dashboard? As usual (from what I understand), the dashboard in mine is cracked in about 10 places and looks like a festering wound.

 

I have access to a 91 XT-6 and will need to replace or re-cover the seats as well. Any suggestions on that?

 

I'm not trying to keep it all original, but rather comfortable.

 

I'm LOVING the looks I get when driving it around town. Yesterday I drove through a Kroger (graocery store) parking lot and a guy in his early 20's cocked his head off to the side like a dog when he saw the BRAT. The expression was PRICELESS!

[TomRhere]

Jerry,

 

I assume that I need to find the 5 spd D/R tranny first though correct?

 

Best if you find a "parts vehicle" to get all that's needed. You can sell-off what you don't need, and recoupe some money from that and scraping the shell. But,, that's just my .02

 

Anyone have any ideas on where I can find a replacement dashboard? As usual (from what I understand), the dashboard in mine is cracked in about 10 places and looks like a festering wound.

 

Not easy to do around here, Mid-Lower Michigan. So I would look into recovering the dash vs replacing. Had,,,, a good dash here. It's developed cracks in it now. And it's been hiding away in storage. Bummer...

 

I have access to a 91 XT-6 and will need to replace or re-cover the seats as well. Any suggestions on that?

 

I have some decent, but not great, seats out of my '88 XT6. If you're in Columbus, Oh., your're not to awfull far from me. I can send you pics if you're interested. Worn, but not all tattered.

 

I'm not trying to keep it all original, but rather comfortable. I hear ya!

 

I'm LOVING the looks I get when driving it around town. Yesterday I drove through a Kroger (graocery store) parking lot and a guy in his early 20's cocked his head off to the side like a dog when he saw the BRAT. The expression was PRICELESS!

 

Get that alot driving my BRATs around here. Down to just one roadable one at the moment. But I have the only 3 BRATs within 50-60 + miles. Get alot of, "my (insert family member) had one of those". Love it! Always ask them "why'd they get rid of it?"

Currently DDing my '85. Have an '82, and a rustedout '86, not really safe to drive anymore. Had another '86 what died from road cancer, and traded the '84 for the '88 XT6. Was a good trade in my opinion. Sadly, the XT6 died of road cancer also. Damned road salt!!!!!!!

[coxy]

Road salt sucks,I commiserate with you the only salt issues in Oz are with beach running.

5 speed and rear disks are a goer for sure,recovering of plastic dashes is a fine art these days and the way to go.

I would personally have a tail shaft made up rather than use the later L series one as it has staked non serviceable uni joints poor form for a keeper.

Before having bed liner done I would POR 15 the bed to rustproof it,I think bed liners are like powder coating Quadbike frames,I have seen rust spread under the plastic like oil on water.

My experience when I put a coupe dash in my Brumby was it was perfect but cracked soon after because no 2 cars are identical and when bolted up it will put strain on the crash pad different to the vehicle it was in causing it to crack,so have it recovered for that reason as new plastic is flexible and won't crack.

Nice looking basis for a Resto you have there and worth the effort seeing as their is nothing like a Brat or Brumby made these days they are irreplaceable.

[2manetoys]

Get that alot driving my BRATs around here. Down to just one roadable one at the moment. But I have the only 3 BRATs within 50-60 + miles. Get alot of, "my (insert family member) had one of those". Love it! Always ask them "why'd they get rid of it?"

Currently DDing my '85. Have an '82, and a rustedout '86, not really safe to drive anymore. Had another '86 what died from road cancer, and traded the '84 for the '88 XT6. Was a good trade in my opinion. Sadly, the XT6 died of road cancer also. Damned road salt!!!!!!!

 

 

Here are pics of the seats that I have in it now without the seat covers.

 

 

Here are some more pics added to the album.

 

85 Brat pics

 

I'll have a lot of little things to do to it, but first I might have to rebuild the engine. looks like hte valve cover gaskets are leaking, small fuel filter leak (I'm replacing all the fuel line that I can and using Hose clamps instead of the spring clips as well as replacing the vacuum lines.)

 

When I replace the rear drums with the Disc brakes, should I go ahead and swap out the fronts as well?

[2manetoys]

Road salt sucks,I commiserate with you the only salt issues in Oz are with beach running.

5 speed and rear disks are a goer for sure,recovering of plastic dashes is a fine art these days and the way to go.

I would personally have a tail shaft made up rather than use the later L series one as it has staked non serviceable uni joints poor form for a keeper.

Before having bed liner done I would POR 15 the bed to rustproof it,I think bed liners are like powder coating Quadbike frames,I have seen rust spread under the plastic like oil on water.

My experience when I put a coupe dash in my Brumby was it was perfect but cracked soon after because no 2 cars are identical and when bolted up it will put strain on the crash pad different to the vehicle it was in causing it to crack,so have it recovered for that reason as new plastic is flexible and won't crack.

Nice looking basis for a Resto you have there and worth the effort seeing as their is nothing like a Brat or Brumby made these days they are irreplaceable.

 

Thanks for the tips. I'm not sure that I can recover the dash though. There are pics of it in the link in my post above. It's cracked pretty badly.

 

This is going to be a fun, but probably expensive project. I'm gonna LOVE it!

[2manetoys]

I found a junkyard today that has a late 80s Loyale wagon with a 5spd D/R tranny, an EA82 motor( I don't think it's a turbo so I might not be able to do othe rear disc swap), and aluminum wheels. I can buy the whole car for $450 (not sure if the motor/tranny is any good or not) or just the motor, tranny & wheels for $300. I'll probably go back out on Wednesday or Thursday and get some good pics. I know that there is some pretty extensive damage to the rear hatch, and drivers side just behind the front doors (which is why I couldn't open the door to get the year), and the windows were down so the interior is shot.

 

What do you guys think? is it better to get the whole car and then scrap it once I've gutted it or just snag the parts I want (would have to turn it on it's side )?

 

As a point of refence, the current motor is an EA81 with (I believe) a Hitachi carb the needs the valve cover gaskets and possibly the oil pan gasket replaced. Idles at 1800 rpms when warmed up and acts like it's not getting a spark after about 40 miles or so of driving, but when shut down and allowed to sit for 5 minutes will restart and drive again for a little while then repeat.

 

This is the engine compartment of my 85 Brat:

 

Edited May 24, 2010 by 2manetoys
added pic

[xoomer]

You have the interior package I want.

 

I'm slowly swapping mine. if you have access to an xt6 for parts why not consider a 5 lug swap? and if your gonna make it a Daily Driver dump the Hicrappy Carb, Get a weber. much easier to deal with.

Edited May 25, 2010 by xoomer

[The Dude Abides]

Now were getting into a whole new ball of wax. You want to swap motors from a ea81 to a ea82. Which is fine and dooable but its like going from a Mars bar to a Snickers bar. Sure theres more in the snickers but not enough that the mars bar can get you through the day. Depending on how much highway you have or want theres always the ej22 upgrade which involves lots of wireing and computer stuff but from what im told way worth it in the end. Plus the ej22 is one of the most durable engines subaru made. And the ej22 has 120hp vs the ea81 78hp and the ea82 98hp.

 

Also look into getting Legacy seats to fit into that. If your not super tall they work great.

 

And cheep aluminum 13inch wheels are easy to find. I told you if you want something bigger then 13inch wheels your going to need peugeot wheels. Try to score a set of those and your ride will (ride) alot better.

[GeneralDisorder]

You DO NOT want the EA82 engine. It's not worth the trouble and you will seriously devalue the Brat if you did that. They are a much worse engine choice than the EA81.

 

You DO want the SPFI off it (if it really is a late 80's EA82).

 

See my write up here:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/EA81_SPFI.html

 

That will solve all the running problems you are having with your EA81 and if you do a clean, correct job of the swap it will not hurt the value of the Brat.

 

GD

[2manetoys]

I work a 12 hour night shift tonight, but after work, I'm going back to the junkyard armed with my camera so I can get some good pics of the wagon and motor in question as well as pics of a 78 Brat for some of our fellow board members in the Historic forum to see if they can use them.

 

Dude, funny that you mentioned the Seats because I found a nice set of Dark Blue seats from a Legacy that I'll be picking up there as well. As for the wheels, they aren't that big of a deal to me, but I work for an aluminum wheel manufacturer so I could theoretically get them customized to some degree. I'm keeping an eye out for some Peugot wheels, but I haven't found any yet. Gotta get the motor going right first. Speaking of motors, I remember the timing belts on the EA82 from my previous Loyale wagons being a real PITA to deal. Thanks for the reminder. I've been reading up on the EJ22 swap, but I haven't gotten comfortable enough working on with the EA81 I've got to start on a bigger project like the EJ22. Mostly it's the wiring part that is daunting for me. I'll get there. OF course I also have to find one.

 

GD. I just bookmarked your write up on the SPFI swap. I don't have time to completely read it at the moment, but I will read it very soon. I'll also be checking out the wagon for SPFI vs TBI. Also, Thanks for the tip about the PCV valve that you gave in another thread. I think I'm having a similar problem to a lesser degree. I'll call the dealer tomorrow and get the necessary parts.

 

As Always, Thanks for the Advice. Picking up the seats tomorrow so maybe I'll have to start a "build" thread.

 

I'll have a little more info tomorrow afternoon and pics as well.

[GeneralDisorder]

SPFI is Subaru's version of TBI (which is a somewhat generic/GM term). It stands for "Single Point Fuel Injection" while TBI stands for "Throttle Body Injection". They are saying the same thing in different ways is all... with the exception that the TBI systems often include more than one injector inside the throttle body..... of course it's still technically a "single point" system vs. a multi-point injection system which typically has as many injectors as you have cylinders..... etc.

 

GD

[2manetoys]

The SPFI doesn't have the same blue Air filter housing on top of the motor that the EA82 & EA81 has though does it? It should say SPFI like in the pics from your write up, correct?

 

Also, Since the same Junkyard has 4 or 5 Loyale body style cars, would it make a difference on the wiring if I took an SPFI from an Automatic Transmission car/motor and put it on the Manual tranny EA81 Brat?

 

I'm heading to the Junkyard now to pull the seats from the Legacy (could that have the EJ22? ) armed with a weedeater, camera and tools. I'll post pics of what subarus I find and perhaps that will help with decision making on parts.

 

Thanks for all the help and info!

[GeneralDisorder]

A Loyale will work for the conversion parts. And yes - you should be able to make the computer from an automatic car work. The wiring harness from the automatic will also be compatible with a manual transmission ECU if you want to go that route. It's not hard to find a manual transmission 87 to 89 ECU. I'm sure there are plenty of folks that have one laying around. Shouldn't cost much.

 

GD

[2manetoys]

A Loyale will work for the conversion parts. And yes - you should be able to make the computer from an automatic car work. The wiring harness from the automatic will also be compatible with a manual transmission ECU if you want to go that route. It's not hard to find a manual transmission 87 to 89 ECU. I'm sure there are plenty of folks that have one laying around. Shouldn't cost much.

 

GD

 

I think I have finally found everything that I will need in one junkyard except the rear disc brakes. Only thing is, it's on 2 or 3 different vehicles depending on EJ22 swap or SPFI on the EA81.

 

I found an SPFI that I can add to the EA81 (following your instructions GD ) in one wagon. Will this eliminate the PCV valve problem that I'm currently having? Runs rich until it hits operating temp, then acts like it's stalling or flooded then dies, but will restart a few minutes later and run a short distance.

 

In another wagon I can get the 5 Spd D/R tranny.

 

Today when I got the Seats from a 90 Legacy sedan (if memory Serves me correctly, the pics will correct me if my memory has failed) and discovered that it has an EJ22 if I decide to go that route (which I'm seriously considering even though the wiring stuff part of the task is daunting for someone who can't even Identify which vacuum line goes to the PCV valve on his EA81. ) Grrrr. I'll find it yet. LOL

 

 

 

Here's the full set of pics:

link to the Gore's Salvage pics

[GeneralDisorder]

From a wireing perspective, the SPFI swap and the EJ22 swap are about the same. But the EJ22 swap requires a lot more time, money, and mechanical work than the SPFI swap does. Wireing wise they are about the same - lots of wiring. LOTS of wireing . The EJ22 in the Brat is awesome though. I just finished helping out with a swap into an '85 Brat. It goes like hell with 135 HP.

 

And yes - SPFI will fix all your running problems.

 

GD

Edited May 26, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[2manetoys]

From a wireing perspective, the SPFI swap and the EJ22 swap are about the same. But the EJ22 swap requires a lot more time, money, and mechanical work than the SPFI swap does. Wireing wise they are about the same - lots of wiring. LOTS of wireing . The EJ22 in the Brat is awesome though. I just finished helping out with a swap into an '85 Brat. It goes like hell with 135 HP.

 

And yes - SPFI will fix all your running problems.

 

GD

 

I guess I'll have to find out how much the EJ22 will cost me. I assume that I should rebuild/refresh it (170K on Odometer I think).

 

The fun part of this is that the salvage yard all these cars are in is very reminiscent of a jungle. I took my weedeater with me today so I could clear a path and startle any local wildlife (rabbits, snakes, etc.) at the same time.

 

Project for tonight is to try to install Legacy seats in Brat. After finding our little Scuni steamer and cleaning the seats. Mice had lived (and pee'd on them) but didn't chew them up. gonna dig through the USRM too.

[GeneralDisorder]

No need to rebuild it most likely. They are very reliable. I would just reseal it and hang a new timing belt, water pump and tensioners on it.

 

GD