Installed FWD fuse and still have bind problem?

[tenderfootblue]

So I started a thread a while back with several issues and thanks to all of the help from here I was able to resolve some of them. However my car still has a torque bind after I installed the FWD fuse.

 

My car; 1996 OBW, 2.5, automatic, 129,000 miles.

The car has worn matching tires, and two of the axel boots are torn...one up front back and one in the back.

 

I have changed the diff. fluid, checked the ATF and it seems fine. When I start the car the ATF oil temp light stays on longer than any other dash lights but goes off after 30 seconds or so.

 

The binding is noticeable mostly at low speeds, and especially when going slow and turning or backing up and turning.

 

I am guessing that the problem is in the tranny since it did not go away when I put the fuse in.

 

Any ideas or advice?

 

Thanks

Edited May 30, 2010 by tenderfootblue
need to post more relevant info

[mdjdc]

If the issue doesn't go away with the fuse, then you have a failed duty C solenoid and it needs to be replaced. Not a bad job and one that you should be able to do in a few hours.

[tenderfootblue]

I have been reading up on it and saw a post that the duty C can get gummed up. The recommendation was to change the ATF twice to try and free up the solenoid.

Would love it if a cheap fluid change will fix my problem.

If not How much is a new duty C, and does a used one generally work to fix the problem?

[mdjdc]

you can get one from www.subarupartsforyou.com I'm not sure of the price though. I personally wouldn't use a used one unless you know it is good. Too much trouble to replace and then find out it is bad too. A known good used one I would use.

[tenderfootblue]

I have changed to ATF twice now and the binding is less obvious under normal driving conditions, but it is still obvious when on uneven terrain and turning at slow speeds.

 

I checked out the recommended site for parts....

is this the description of the duty C needed to hopefully fix the problem?

 

TRANSFER DUTY SOLENOID FOR 1996-1998 LEGACY OUTBACK & SUS ALL (comes with rear trans case gasket and 2 gaskets for solenoid) non-returnable parts $115.00 1 $115.00

 

I copied that form the checkout page from subarupartsforyou.com.

 

This car is eating my wallet. I thought I got a good deal on it at auction only to get on here and find out that people are getting good cars for next to nothing and putting in a little work. I paid 2300 for it and have about 200 into it so far and still need to put tires on after I fix the torque bind. then I have a list of other things I need to get done. I should start a thread and report my progress with pics.

[johnceggleston]

you still have torque bind after putting in the FWD fuse.?

 

does the FWD light come on in the dash display? i'm not 100% sure 90 - 94s have it but the 95 - 99s do.

 

the light should come on when you first turn the key when all the dash lights are tested, and then stay on when the fuse is in.

 

what i'm getting at is you may have more than just a bad duty c solenoid. you could have gummed up clutch plates.

 

on 95 - 99 legos, if the duty c is bad you will get a flashing AT Temp light on the dash. yours may be a different light but it should be lit as a warning indicator.

 

i think you can get the duty c and 2 valve assembly gaskets (exact same gasket needed 2 times) for less (~ 80$ plus shipping) at https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/oe_parts_cat.html . you do not need the rear extension transfer case gasket, just use rtv ultra gray.

 

take the individual part numbers from the partsforyou site and plug them in at genuinesubaru. don't forget to figure the shipping.

 

if the fluid change helped, maybe give it some time and do it again??

 

EDIT: i just looked up the parts pricing and they are about the same. the duty c for a 95 is cheaper, but 96 - 98 are not much if any. i cannot believe that there is much difference in the duty c from 95 to 96 but you do not wan to go through this and have it not fix the problem.

 

if it is gummed up, and the duty c still works, i wonder if a good cleaning of the valve body would help.?

Edited June 5, 2010 by johnceggleston

[tenderfootblue]

The FWD fuse did not make the bind go away and from what I have gathered from the help on here and reading other threads points to the duty C.

 

Yes, with the fuse in the light comes on in the dash and I have verified that only the front wheels are driving.

 

I did the fluid drain and fill one time then put in new again (about 3.5 quarts each time) and have not drained it after the second refilling. Probably have about 150-200 miles on the new atf.

 

The at oil temp light has not come on since I changed the fluid.

 

Is there more I should know about the "gummed clutch plates" you refered to?

 

 

btw...I just took some pics of the car and am going to post them on my profile.

[johnceggleston]

The FWD fuse did not make the bind go away and from what I have gathered from the help on here and reading other threads points to the duty C.

 

Yes, with the fuse in the light comes on in the dash and I have verified that only the front wheels are driving.

 

your symptoms are not typical, at least they are new to me. i do not see how you can have binding if the rear wheels are not engaged or driving.

 

but aside from that

 

if the fuse is in and if FWD is lit then the duty c is probably working.

 

i say that because my son's 95 lego had occasional binding and blinking AT Temp light at start up. sometimes the FWD light would come on and solve the binding and some times it was off and he had binding. we finally pulled the rear section of the drive shaft and he's happy with a FWD car. even after we pulled the drive shaft, we left the fuse in and he reports that occasionally the FWD light comes on but usually he gets a flashing AT Temp at start up.

 

so back to you, i think if the FWD light is on the duty c is working. i think your problem is a gummed up valve body and / or gummed up clutch plates. i don't really know. and i think the only way for you to be sure is to replace everything in the transfer clutch housing, solenoid valve assembly and the clutch plates.

 

but this is all based on my limited experience.

 

if it were mine i'd be driving it as a FWD car with the rear section of drive shaft out. and i'd search for a bad trans with, if possible, a known good transfer clutch and plan on installing it with a new duty c before winter. second to that i'd look for any ole rear extension housing, they all pretty much interchange, and inspect it and prep it with a new duty c for a fall swap. but that's just me.

 

if you live in a subaru area, ne, nw, pa, you should be able to find a good rear housing for cheap. or look on craigslist for a car with a bad trans that they are parting out.

 

good luck.

[Olnick]

I seem to remember some excellent threads and discussions about fixing those clutch plates in the past--had good tips and photos. Try a search and see what you can dig up.

 

Good luck and keep up the good work--you'll get it.

[idosubaru]

you say the binding didn't go away with the FWD fuse.

but with the FWD fuse in you verified only the front wheels were being driven.

i'm not sure we know exactly what's going on, you'll need to explain a little better, stuff like this is really tough if we can't see, touch, feel the car.

[tenderfootblue]

Sorry for the confusion.

When I put the fuse in the binding did not go away. I wanted to verify that the fuse was in fact working so i spun the tires in the gravel to make sure that only the fronts were working.

 

Also had a few thoughts about my symptoms since I do not know what a classic torque bind feels like. It seems that some users posts regarding binding problems are explaining a severe locking up problem. That is not what is happening here.

My symptom is a clunking in the rear and a there is a light binding feeling as I turn at slow speeds, back up and turn at slow speeds, or drive on uneven terrain like dirt roads or something similar.

Originally there was the at oil temp light but that went away when I changed the fluid and has not come back.

 

So, for further exploration I just (not 30 minutes ago) went out and pulled the rear tires. Here is what I found; both strut boots torn and one blown with fluid leaking out...the other looks like it dried up a long time ago, both brake pads are worn to about 10%, calipers look like they are the originals.

 

Rear tires do not match the fronts, which is contrary to what I originally posted, but the tread pattern is very similar. The insides of both rear tires are wore down to secondary rubber.

 

thanks for all the help and patience with a newbie

[idosubaru]

yeah something isn't right here. the tires not matching is super bad news. that is your first issue.

 

and that probably has damaged something, but first thing is to get some matching tires on there.

 

i'm starting to wonder if the rear diff ratio is different than the trans. do you know if any of that was ever worked on? diffs and trans are swappable but subaru offered typically 2 different gear ratios for the automatics - either a 4.11 or 4.44. if someone swaps trans (which has the front diff built into it) or rear diff they could have swapped it wrong. it's easy to do since lots of very similar subaru's have different final drive ratios.

[tenderfootblue]

The only history I have on the car is what I have done to it in the two months I have owned it. I bought it at auction and was only able to turn on the car and pull it forward and backward for my preview. They didn't allow test drives on the day I previewed the car. I did do a thorough checking of everything that I was able to.

It appears to me that I bought a car that had nothing more than oil changes done to it for maintenance. It only has 128,xxx miles on it. Not bad at all for a 1996. Now I have to catch up on 14 years of missed mtc. and fix what has gone wrong.

The good news it purrs like a kitten. This thing runs quiet and smooth, and doesn't smoke a bit.

 

I have also been pricing tires today. The best buy I can find are at wal-mart, called Douglas tires. Has anyone heard of them?

[idosubaru]

no, try tirerack or other online tire places, they have tire reviews.

 

in general cheap tires will provide below average performance in snow and other situations. pays to be a mindful buyer but "you get what you pay for" applies.

 

sometimes you can keep your eye out - classifieds, here, ebay, craiglist for a set of take-offs at a reasonable price with good tires...sometimes new tires. good way to get a good set of tread and nice wheels.

[johnceggleston]

search "diffcheck". you will find a thread with a way to check to see if the front and rear diffs match.

 

i still would have thought that the FWD fuse would have cured the problem but who knows. clunking could maybe be an axle???? i don't know.

 

i don't quite know where to start.

 

maybe a dealer or 'good' subie mechanic diagnosis, just to eliminate some things. you don't have to get them to do the repairs, just get a price quote.

Edited June 6, 2010 by johnceggleston