So really... how much?

[TheSubaruJunkie]

well i will not tell you how much i have into my EJ swap, but im sure its many times what my car is worth.

 

however if you are interested in an EJ18, i have an engine and harness ready to go i will sale you for the Homie hook-up price!

 

Plug and play...

 

just have to find a way to get it down south...

 

Would rather have a 2.2............ but you got me thinkin

[baccaruda]

I have a list valuing my car at about $6500 replacement cost, but it's lifted & 5-lug'd, and that estimate has things in it like "wiring harness - $300" for insurance purposes; I made my own wiring harness for like $25, and "$450 - RX transmission" even though I parted out that RX and made all but $100 of my money back from it. I also assigned a base value of $1000 for a GL-10 wagon in decent condition.

s

For JUST the EJ swap, I'm in for about...

$500 - free running, good engine + new pumps, belts, gaskets, oil seals

$150 - New STI grp N motor mounts

$350 - Kevlar clutch disc + HD pressure plate + drilled & balanced XT6 flywheel

$150 - adapter plate (thanks M. Rose!)

$150 - radiator + outlet mods

$200 - all wiring, misc nuts/bolts, misc. parts

[Yo'J]

When you all post your junkyard prices, it keeps reminding me how expensive all our junkyards are. Without an hour+ drive you cant find anything!

[Gloyale]

I am seeing alot of stuff that I would consider regular maintanance one would be performing on either the old engine or the new at some point (t, belts, headgaskets, etc...) I really don't think those things are directly connected to the price of "doing the swap"

 

Most people doing the swap seemed to be faced with worn out enignes that would cost something to fix, so the regular service items come out a wash.

 

Also, alot of talk about swapping in EJ trans and STI motor mounts. Again, that's really secondary and on top of the primaryENGINE swap.

 

 

To me, the bottom line "cost" of the swap comes down to 3 things.

 

engine/harness/ECU cost, (i.e. donor car cost) ranges from $150-500for a donor car. If you buy piece at a time from the junkyards, you could spend more. Notably for Alternator, MAF and Intake tube, Ignitor, Exhaust......all things that would be on a complete donor car.

 

Adapter plate and flywheel cost , from $50-250 (there are other optioins too. Split an EJ trans and put S/R EA guts and tailshaft on it, or use EJ trans but then there will be cost of axles and driveline.) Hoggin out the holes on the flywheel takes about an hour with a dremel and a carbide cutting tip. *warning* may kill your dremel.

 

And cost of stripping harness, and installing.

 

The last one can all be free if you are willing and able to do the work yourself (which most USMBer's are, whether they know it or not)

 

Everything else is totally dependant on how much you want to replace *preventatively* and what condition the car it's goin in is in. There is also of course Fluids, hoses, shrink tube and loom wrapping, solder, a 270 ohm resitor. But that's nickle and dime stuff that can be worked out after the actual ECU wiring and "swap"

 

Of course the older carbed cars need a bit more, fuel pump most notably.

 

I can say that neither of my swaps has cost me more than $1000. Even if I include things that are really more like maintanance in my mind.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Gloyale

[renob123]

I am seeing alot of stuff that I would consider regular maintanance one would be performing on either the old engine or the new at some point (t, belts, headgaskets, etc...) I really don't think those things are directly connected to the price of "doing the swap"

 

Most people doing the swap seemed to be faced with worn out enignes that would cost something to fix, so the regular service items come out a wash.

 

Also, alot of talk about swapping in EJ trans and STI motor mounts. Again, that's really secondary and on top of the primaryENGINE swap.

 

 

To me, the bottom line "cost" of the swap comes down to 3 things.

 

engine/harness/ECU cost, (i.e. donor car cost) ranges from $150-500for a donor car. If you buy piece at a time from the junkyards, you could spend more. Notably for Alternator, MAF and Intake tube, Ignitor, Exhaust......all things that would be on a complete donor car.

 

Adapter plate and flywheel cost , from $50-250 (there are other optioins too. Split an EJ trans and put S/R EA guts and tailshaft on it, or use EJ trans but then there will be cost of axles and driveline.) Hoggin out the holes on the flywheel takes about an hour with a dremel and a carbide cutting tip. *warning* may kill your dremel.

 

And cost of stripping harness, and installing.

 

The last one can all be free if you are willing and able to do the work yourself (which most USMBer's are, whether they know it or not)

 

Everything else is totally dependant on how much you want to replace *preventatively* and what condition the car it's goin in is in. There is also of course Fluids, hoses, shrink tube and loom wrapping, solder, a 270 ohm resitor. But that's nickle and dime stuff that can be worked out after the actual ECU wiring and "swap"

 

Of course the older carbed cars need a bit more, fuel pump most notably.

 

I can say that neither of my swaps has cost me more than $1000. Even if I include things that are really more like maintanance in my mind.

 

The original question was about how much we were in, not how much should it cost to put in an EJ engine and get it to somewhat idle if everything goes right.

 

We both provided our estimates.

 

Jacob

[Yo'J]

"Re: So really... how much?"

 

How lucky are ya?

[Gloyale]

I'm in over $3,000 easily by now, and the total keeps growing. However, I think I spent incredibly little time on it, considering how amateur of a mechanic I am.

 

 

hmmmm........well, you're words not mine.

 

This seems to be an acknowledgement that the amount of money you spent isn't reflective of a "bottom line" evaluation of cost of someone doing it themselves. (I can only presume from you're description that you paid for others labor to do your swap, correct me if wrong)

 

Perhaps you've overestimated?

 

The original question was about how much we were in, not how much should it cost to put in an EJ engine and get it to somewhat idle if everything goes right.

 

 

Lets' recap.....

 

The survey was to gather data for an "average".

 

My point is that he's ending up with a flawed data from estimates that include cost of maintanence items. But yes, it was a survey that we both answered.

 

However.....

 

The underlying point behind the question is how much should he plan on saving up to be able to do a swap.

 

After answering said survey, I offered an opinion that while not a direct response to the question, is still very relavant to the overall issue being addressed.

 

Did I do something wrong?

Edited June 6, 2010 by Gloyale

[Gloyale]

"Re: So really... how much?"

 

How lucky are ya?

 

word

[GeneralDisorder]

hmmmm........well, you're words not mine.

 

This seems to be an acknowledgement that the amount of money you spent isn't reflective of a "bottom line" evaluation of cost of someone doing it themselves. (I can only presume from you're description that you paid for others labor to do your swap, correct me if wrong)

 

Perhaps you've overestimated?

 

While he did pay for someone to strip the harness (before he enlisted my help), he did the majority of the labor himself with my supervision. I was basically unpaid - just wanted to participate from an educational perspective. Prior to me stepping in he had already bought a bunch of stuff - some of which wasn't correct or was uneccesary. His point is simply that his lack of knowledge and skills led him down the wrong path on buying parts on more than one occasion.

 

What should be pointed out is that Jacob's Brat was built expressly for the purpose of Rally-X racing and his desire was to have it as reliable and trouble-free as possible. As such, my sugestions on how to spend his money were toward that end and to get the thing moving as quickly as possible. Lots of money went to OEM parts that may or may not have needed replacement (new O2 sensor, replace cracked knock sensor, etc) because he didn't have the time to screw around - it needed to run right the first time to make it to the first race. Even at that we had an unexpected ignitor failure that rendered it inoperable after only a single run.

 

I think his point is that he traded money for insureing it would be right the first time and not gambling on old used parts.

 

GD

[Yo'J]

So for me $3000 was spent mostly on upgrades as well as the prices you get charged in the big sh*ty. The extra costs are also in fuel line stuff like a surge tank and all new lines, so that all is very dependent on your base platform.

 

To say the price of solder, electrical tape, a donor car and dremel wheels for completing a full ejswap is not really accurate. I'm sure its feasible, but....

 

I will also disagree with anyone over the price of hoses fluids and maintenance items. Just because of the availability of cheap cars with the conditions they come with. (a bad auto failing and driven into the ground and sold cheap or ignitor (or what have you) failure due to rear impact. ) You just fix the stuff you find in need of fixing when the motors out. Who would put new t-belts on an ej with a weeping water pump? It has to be done and thats part of the cost. You cant say "I'm not including things like__________" because you spent the money on your swap.

 

What are you in for, is the question.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Yo'J
missed a period

[Yo'J]

Oh I should also include that things you have other people do should be included in your estimate (like having a shop do your exhaust). I don't have a bender or welder on hand. That is something I'm in for.

[Gloyale]

 

To say the price of solder' date=' electrical tape, a donor car and dremel wheels for completing a full ejswap is not really accurate

 

[/quote']

 

It's exactly accurate for my swaps.

 

Altough you left out the cost of having adapter plates made. (I got 4 done for $200)

 

That's what I have in them.

 

Question answered.

[Yo'J]

Did I do something wrong?

 

Forgot to bring me cookies!

[renob123]

hmmmm........well, you're words not mine.

 

This seems to be an acknowledgement that the amount of money you spent isn't reflective of a "bottom line" evaluation of cost of someone doing it themselves. (I can only presume from you're description that you paid for others labor to do your swap, correct me if wrong)

 

Perhaps you've overestimated?

 

 

 

 

Lets' recap.....

 

The survey was to gather data for an "average".

 

My point is that he's ending up with a flawed data from estimates that include cost of maintanence items. But yes, it was a survey that we both answered.

 

However.....

 

The underlying point behind the question is how much should he plan on saving up to be able to do a swap.

 

After answering said survey, I offered an opinion that while not a direct response to the question, is still very relavant to the overall issue being addressed.

 

Did I do something wrong?

 

When I said that we both provided our estimates, that was my attempt to drop this subject. Judging from his profile, Junky is an adult and is fully capable of coming to conclusions based on information. We both provided information. If you want to question my ability as a mechanic, that's fine, I guess. What if rguyver or Suberdave gave estimates on their swap costs? Would you question their abilities? My Brat isn't in the same league as their respective swaps, but I'm proud of it, and it's close to doing what I wanted it to do, and for a fraction of the price of some of my competitors' cars. Questioning my ability to estimate expenses is ludicrous, at best. I do the operating budget for a major Oregon hospital.

 

In more explicit terms this time, I offer to drop this subject so as to not contaminate this thread, which may at some point be useful to someone doing a swap. The more swaps, the better, I say, as long as they stay out of Modified 4WD class.

 

Jacob

[subynut]

When I did the conversion on my '86:

engine, wiring, and ecu, y-pipe for 625 - local junkyard, 140K on the clock.

adaptor plate I got from my brother for 50.

The wiring I did myself - not afraid of wires.

Had the flyheel redrilled by a machinest buddy for 20

Used existing tranny

 

I then did a full maintenece on the engine (t-belts, water pump, seals, gaskets, hoses, oem t-stat, plugs, wires, and clutch) - learned the hard way to do it now and not get stranded later.

 

I sold the car for the cost of the conversion about 2 years ago and it is still going strong.

 

 

My brother did it the cheap way: 600 for a parts car (was hit) with ~175k on the clock.

Adaptor plate from the board (I forget who)

I did the wiring.

No maintenince on the engine - just the necessary parts to get it working.

It worked great untill we took it to WCSS, didn't make it home - lost the rear main seal - lost 2qts every fillup and then the timing belt broke due to a seized idler pully.

 

 

Just my $.02

[Numbchux]

it all depends how thorough of a job you want to do, and how much your parts cost. And those are HUUUUGGGEEEEEE variables.

 

 

Let's assume you get a working donor car with the motor and transmission parts you need. Here's what I would buy/have bought and how much it costs (looked these all up just now. shipping not included).

 

Timing set w/ water pump. PCI set from ebay. ~$125

Crank/Cam seals. smallcar.com. $30 (12 for crank, 9ea for cam)

Beck/Arnley clutch kit from rockauto. $200

I charge $250 for the harness modification

 

figure $50 in hoses. another $50 in fluids. ~50 or so in an aftermarket slim fan.

 

probably $100 for the driveshaft modification

 

tranny xmember will require custom fabbing, so that might add to the cost. EJ shift linkage will probably be pretty close to what you need. front axles.

 

suspension/brake setup. EPIC variables there, so I'll ignore it for now.

 

 

 

So, for all that...$855, plus cost of the donor, plus shipping. Of course, there's $350ish in maintenence parts that would not necessarily need to be replaced. but I would not recommend doing all the work of the swap and leaving old parts in there.

[subynut]

Exactly.

[baccaruda]

Listing more variables gives prospective swappers a better idea of how and why to shop for deals, and of what parts to replace.

I couldn't use the motor mounts that came on my car because they were blown out - they were the round liquid-filled kind. No way was I going to spend half a day at the junkyard trying to pull out a set of maybe-halfway-OK mounts.