need some help from the pros

[lone500]

well guys you have probably had 1000 of these kinds of threads but here is another for ya

 

I have a 1994 legacy L.

 

and.... you guessed it! i want more power!

 

i know anything thats done will cost money. power isnt free.

 

just not sure exactly where i should start with my n/a engine to get more power out of it.

 

help me out guys

[Turbone]

Sell it and buy a WRX/STI.

For all the money you need to spend on getting more power out of a NA engine, you might as well get a better platform from the beginning.

[94Loyale]

x2 Turbone. Honestly, you are not going to get anything impressive, or worth the money out of these motors N/A. I'm speaking from experience because I can't leave any car I have stock.

 

But if you really want a little more out of it. The first step on any Subaru is a tune up :-) Then go from there if you feel that motivated.

[NoahDL88]

sell it, use the money as a down payment on a used 02-03 WRX relatively cheap, and cheaper in the long run than getting the 94 fast.

 

The 2.2 is a great, stout engine, but its benefits are reliability and durability, and not high performance.

 

 

A third option, in 91-94 there was a turbo legacy available, you could try and get one of those and sell yours.

[lone500]

any extra power out of my car would be nice ya know.

 

I really would like to find a early 90s turbo legacy. there just hard to find let alone at a decent price.

 

thanks guys.

[idosubaru]

some folks want to tinker, novelty, etc. like intake, exhaust mods, expensive spark plugs, tricked out, etc. gains on NA engines are tiny by design. you can't "make" an N/A car fast on a budget. if that's what you want, then just do whatever it is that you think is cool and you want to play with. intake and exhaust are a good place to start.

 

if you really want power, like an actual fast vehicle, then reread the replies above. you can entertain the idea of installing a turbo on your current engine, it's been done before. monitor it very well or you'll grenade it running a turbo on the high compression pistons of an NA block. read about others that have done it and see what you think (and go get a spare block ).

[nipper]

Sell it and buy a WRX/STI.

For all the money you need to spend on getting more power out of a NA engine, you might as well get a better platform from the beginning.

 

Or live someplace where everything is downhill.

 

 

nipper

[NoahDL88]

An intake and air filter assembly will run you 150-250, and will probably net you 3hp, and that will mostly come from the fact you now have a clean air filter.

 

Exhaust manifold, 300-500, will probably get you 5-10hp, and that's being optimistic.

 

Reground cams will give you the most bang for your buck, around 300, and the increase in HP will be 10-20 depending on grind, add to it a good exhaust and you might be pushing 25 more horse over stock, and that is being very, very optimistic.

 

A basic tune up and a seafoam treatment would be the best place to start, if your plugs, wires or filters are not performing at their best you're loosing HP.

 

 

There is no magic bullet that will give you an extra 100hp for $20, a 20 year old engine design doesn't have much aftermarket support, unless happenstance allows you to use newer engine parts on the older engine, or is extremely popular (VW aircooled anyone?)

 

Cheap, Fast, Reliable, pick any two, you'll never get all three at once.

[lone500]

im actually toying with the idea of rigging up a supercharger on my legacy. mounting and installing and frabrication of parts to get it to mount up right wouldnt be all that bad i dont think. it would basicaly be engine management and all that would be the "slightly" more difficult part.

[NoahDL88]

Search Red Devil? you'll find it to be more of a pain/issue than its worth, he's on engine 6 maybe 7, and he actually knows what he's doing.

[lone500]

wow reddevil has been through it all with it

 

still i think it might be feasible.

 

just have to make sure i have engine management and to NOT get greedy with boost.

 

need to rebuild my engine anyway before i even think about putting any FI on my car. probably be ok but ya know

 

ill have to read more of what reddevil has done. man hes tinkered like hell with legacy.

[94Loyale]

Or live someplace where everything is downhill.

 

 

nipper

 

Hahaha...

[lone500]

everything is downhill where i live. at least till you get to the other side of the valley

 

and on a second note. there is this one hill near where i live. ill stomp it down through there and in just a couple seconds im hitting over 100. im like ya baby! thats what it would be like to have a turbo.

[cobcob]

im actually toying with the idea of rigging up a supercharger on my legacy. mounting and installing and frabrication of parts to get it to mount up right wouldnt be all that bad i dont think. it would basicaly be engine management and all that would be the "slightly" more difficult part.

 

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/t92852-my-m62-supercharger-build-diy-how.html

[lone500]

oh ty cobcob. hadnt seen that thread before. got some more reading to do

[cobcob]

No probs mate!

There's a few guys in the 2.5RS world who are playing around with supercharging an NA engine. Some opt for a bottom end build also while others just boost the stock engine at a moderate level (5psi or so)

You'll obviously need to run some form of EMS, be it a standalone or piggyback to handle the fueling issues.

[bheinen74]

I have had a handful of 92-94 turbo leg sedan and turbo wagon.

Have been my best bang for the buck, and they are pretty super reliable, and are seemingly near the performance of the newest performance Subarus, with just a few bucks in mods (exhaust, intake, intercooler, turbo updgrade, etc)

They are seemingly one of the more durable Subaru's you can get. They made them for rally, they did the endurance record with them, etc. They can be beat on, pushed towards the limits, and really they will not let you down. Normal maintenance is a must. And, of course, the premium gas requirement.

and did I mention, they can be had in nice shape for 2500-3500.

Lesser shapes ones for 1500

beat up ones for 900

and turbo wagons with bad trans, for about 400

[GeneralDisorder]

I love my '91 SS.

 

Don't spend your money on an NA engine - and supercharging is laughable if you are driving a 94 Legacy. Trust me - you don't have the money for it.

 

Save your money - love the car for what it is.

 

When you see a deal on a '91 to '94 Legacy SS 5 speed jump on it. I run in the Subaru community and when my '91 became availible from someone that got in way over his head - I simply traded my '94 Legacy wagon for it. Straight across. I got my '91 for basically $1200 - what I had into the wagon at the time. The body has 160k on it and the engine has 110k from a wrecked '94 TTW. It is an amazing machine in my opinion - far superior in build quality to the newer stuff (WRX's etc). It has it's limitations but the engine is easily good for 300 HP without changing anything but the turbo, intake/intercooler, exhaust, and a bit of tuning. With bottom end work and head changes the engine is good for 800+ HP. It is the only closed deck turbo engine made for the US market and it's 0.2 Liters larger than an early WRX engine. With a 2.5 crank and rods it's a 2.35 Liter stroker and capable of amazing amounts of power.

 

There's no point in doing anything to your NA engine. Get something that isn't going to just break when you really stick the boost to it.

 

That said, you can turbo an EJ22E NA block. Several folks have done it reliabily at about 4 or 5 psi boost (the 22T can easily handle 20+ psi with some tuning). It's about 200 HP or so. But that's about what a Legacy Turbo is at with just exhaust and an intercooler on stock boost - WAY less work and tuning problems. Exhaust and intercooler and slight boost increase on the SS requires NO tuning changes and will put the engine right up to 200 to 220 HP with about 1 day of work. You do the math on that one.

 

GD

Edited June 3, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[lone500]

generaldisorder- ive been kind of thinking down the lines your coming from. I do have some money (like a grand or so) and after looking at costs and such i do have to say i would probably be better off in the end just buying a turbo legacy.

 

with the money i have i have a good start at buying one and all.

 

of course ill just keep the car i have for whatever ya know plus ill probably modify it a little for offroading

 

but ya i need to save up a little more money atm and start looking for a deal.

[lone500]

anyone know of any good places to look out for turbo legacys being sold?

 

found this on craigslist

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/cto/1765786965.html

 

not to far away i couldnt drive a few hours

 

but to expensive for my cash pool as of yet

[GeneralDisorder]

You are making the right choice. It would be a LOT of work to convert a non-turbo to run with forced induction - and by simply buying a turbo car you get all the goodies they came with - VLSD ('91 only), larger sway bars, sport tuned suspension, much larger brakes, turbo engine cross-member, turbo radiator (doesn't fit the NA core support), leather accented interior, sun-roof, premium sound system, and just a whole bunch of things that no one ever thinks about.

 

It's really the total package so that even if you were to take an NA car and bolt on a turbo, etc - you would still have a car that handled, stopped, and rode like an NA car - just with way more power than those components were meant to support..... because they *look* the same on the outside (besides the badging and the scoop), people assume that it's the same car but with a turbo added on. When in reality there is very little that the two have in common. They didn't even share engine block castings or transmissions - about the only thing that is the same is the connecting rods strangely enough.... and of course body panels and interior and trim cross over, etc. But mechanically they are almost different cars making it very difficult to duplicate one.

 

Just keep looking. Something will come along. Even an automatic that you can swap a WRX 5 speed into - those go cheap if they have bad transmissions typically.

 

GD

Edited June 4, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[cobcob]

Don't spend your money on an NA engine

 

There's no point in doing anything to your NA engine.

 

These two statements are far too broad.

You haven't taken into account the OP's location, goals, or abilities.

There's a LOT that can be done to NA engines to increase HP. While the gains on NA engines may not be what they would on an FI engine that doesn't mean that the OP may not consider them worth pursuing.

Bolt ons like exhaust headers, and a catback can be had for a decent price. I've got less than $180 in my installation on my 2.5RS.

Intakes can be sourced from alternative vehicles, the '94 Accord CAI works just fine on the GC platform and can be had for $30 or less off eBay. Look around, be creative and you might find something that works just as well for your particular application.

Lightweight (but not underdriven) pulleys can help free up some HP by decreasing the rotating mass. It'll make your car a little trickier to launch off the line but if you're looking at more pull through the twisties it'll help a little.

You could consider a change in fuel. A number of people have reported good HP gains by running a 40% E85 mix. Even more gains are possible by upgrading your injectors, & fuel pump, running 1 step colder plugs and going straight E85.

The number of NA vehicles running around with either a mild turbo kit or M62 supercharger installed flies in the face of the perception that 'NA motors will grenade when boosted'. If you're reasonable in your expectations of what the stock NA bottom end can handle then you're safe.

Head wise you can do a port and polish job at home if you're careful. Delta Cams are worth a look in. You can score a used set off some forums for $150-$200. EJ22? Put some EJ25 heads on it and a turbo kit. EJ25? Put some phase II EJ22 heads on it and run a high-compression build.

In today's economy time is money for a lot of people. If you can't afford to change vehicles there's nothing wrong with doing what you can to the one you've got!

 

It's like the old 305/327 vs 350 argument. Just because higher gains are easier to reach with a 350 doesn't mean you should discount working over a 305/327 if that is what you have available to use.

Edited June 4, 2010 by cobcob

[lone500]

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=44187

 

not a bad price i dont figure.

 

to bad everything is a decent drive away for me.

[NoahDL88]

Where do you live? you should fill out your profile

[lone500]

there ya go noah i filled some stuff out

 

and btw i live close to Ashville North Carolina