diff in auto an manual motor?

[dr.b]

I just put the motor out of my 2000 auto legacy, in my manual 2001 legacy, and i have a no start problem. The intake that was in the car was put on the new block. I am getting a 336 code. I removed cleaned replaced, then removed and replaced with new one, and still get the code. Are the magnetic plates behind the crank pullies really different? I read from one man, who sounds like he knows his stuff that there are a different # of teeth on auto's than manuals, this makes sense to me, w/ the 336 code. But i have also seen a ton of people on the web say it is "BS" . I dont trust these people. I dont think that they have been where i am right now. Right now i am planning on poping off the timming covers tomorrow and checking myself. Has any one been there done that? or seen this before?

[Fairtax4me]

I know there are differences in the cam sensor wheels between some years, I can only assume the crank sprockets to be different as well. And if the computer is looking for one type, but sees another, it doesn't count properly and can't tell the coil or injectors when to operate accurately. I believe the fix is to swap the crankshaft sprocket, but be sure to check the wheels on the back of the cam sprockets as well while you're in there, you may need to swap those as well.

[idosubaru]

not sure that it's an AT verses MT difference, but doesn't matter, it sounds like you're experiencing trigger differences in Phase II engines. check your teeth (back of cam sprocket) and points (crank sprocket circumference) for differences.

 

if you can, post the actual codes if you know them when asking.

[dr.b]

not sure that it's an AT verses MT difference, but doesn't matter, it sounds like you're experiencing trigger differences in Phase II engines. check your teeth (back of cam sprocket) and points (crank sprocket circumference) for differences.

 

if you can, post the actual codes if you know them when asking.

 

Yes it does matter, i want to know if i am going to run into this trigger problem again, if i do the same thing down the road. I don't want to be pulling the timing cover off every motor just to make sure. If they are different i want to know.

I do know the code, and what it means , but i only wanted answers from people who also know what it is. If i told everyone what it was, I would have a bunch of people thinking they knew.

And I already said i was going to check my teeth, so your no help.

Edited June 24, 2010 by dr.b

[dr.b]

I know there are differences in the cam sensor wheels between some years, I can only assume the crank sprockets to be different as well.

Thank you, I will be sure to check the cam as well.

[johnceggleston]

i have read that there are differences in the cam sprockets for some years, but i don't remember reading that there are differences in the crank sprockets. but once you open it up you may as well check both before you put it back together. you don't want to do it twice.

 

let us know what you learn and how it turns out.

[logic23]

All the phase 2 manual engines I've taken apart have the other style crank and cam gears. They also had 4 studs as opposed to the 2 that are on 99% of the ej engines.

Luckily the auto is the easier to find i think they are the same as a phase 1 2.2 if you hav eone of those around.

I had the same thing happen to me last fall. The car was backfiring and sputtering and wouldn't start.

Change them out and you will be GOLDEN.

[logic23]

also swap the whole intake with everything attached... ive seen differences that might cause problems..

[logic23]

sorry just read that you did swap the intake. good job:)

[Fairtax4me]

Yes it does matter, i want to know if i am going to run into this trigger problem again, if i do the same thing down the road. I don't want to be pulling the timing cover off every motor just to make sure. If they are different i want to know.

I do know the code, and what it means , but i only wanted answers from people who also know what it is. If i told everyone what it was, I would have a bunch of people thinking they knew.

And I already said i was going to check my teeth, so your no help.

 

Gary is 100% right, transmission type has no correlation with the cam/crank sensor trigger wheels. What he was saying is that the difference between an engine from an auto trans car, and one from a manual trans car is negligible. The difference is from the Phase1 to Phase 2 series engine. About the only difference you'll see engine wise between an auto or manual transmission car, might be the EGR valve, which some manual transmission cars do not have.

[idosubaru]

i'm not "right", i was trying to discuss. he took "it doesn't matter" really hard. i did assume it wouldn't matter since he was going after that tooth count and wanted to diagnose a no-start. i understand where he's coming from, though i feel bad for how quickly his BP shoots up.

 

Subaru's website seems to indicate it doesn't matt....er...i mean it doesn't show a difference until February 2003:

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b12/type_21/engine/camshaft_and_timing_belt/illustration_1/

 

plugging around that site might show the auto/manual or other parts differences you're looking for if you're still stuck.

 

since you replaced the part - have you checked for continuity in that circuit, maybe the wire got hosed somewhere?

Edited June 24, 2010 by grossgary

[dr.b]

Got it running, the tooth count was different on the back of the cam and crank sprocket. I changed the crank first because i was getting that crank sensor code. For fun i decided to see if it would fire, it did. I scanned the car after it fired, sure enough the cam sensor code came up, so i popped the belt back off and changed it out, it was different. Runs great now and NO codes.

I must ask why you guys think it is a phase 1 or2 thing? I have not really done any home work on them, but i thought 1was dual and 2 was single. Both engines heads are single cam. I am still up in the air as to why the sprockets were different. But i do have some evidence that says the sprockets are different in manuals than in automatics.

[dr.b]

I'm glad to see that your a good sport grossgary , thanks for the link.

[idosubaru]

it's not a Phase I/Phase II thing, this issue is encountered when swapping Phase II EJ22's and EJ25's.

 

no legacy's got the EJ22 in 2000 so one of them would have needed to be swapped at some point in it's life if that's the case here - and therefore a long shot - but no way one of the motors was an EJ22 was it?

[dr.b]

no,no these are both 2.5's.

[ccrinc]

The cam and left crank sprocket must be exactly right in all 2.5 SOHC engines or the engine will not start. If I was still involved in engine tear down every day, I could give you the exact stats.

 

It boils down to the number of "teeth" on the crank sprocket sending the correct signal to the crank angle sensor and the number of cam pickups sending the correct signal to the cam angle sensor.

 

We always get the VIN of any car we do these engines for so that we can verify which combination is correct. There are only 2 configurations. That said, there is still the occasional oddball (usually around 2005) where what "should" be and what is, are different.

 

Swapping the 2 sprockets was exactly the correct thing to do.

 

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com