bstone Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 97 Legacy Outback Wagon, 230k miles. Every morning I have to add about a quart of water/coolant to the radiator. I burp it by squeezing the upper hose until no more bubbles are present. I am not overheating, but did overheat about 3 weeks ago. I see no coolant under the car. I am nervous I might have an internal leak of head gasket issue. I ran a chemical "block test" which was three times negative for exhaust in the coolant. Put a can of Bar's Leak in for good measure. Where is the coolant? What can I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) It's leaking it or burning it. Leak fix "in a bottle" is a bad idea all around - it clogs radiators and heater cores. The only stuff you should use is the Subaru approved coolant conditioner - which is made by Holts. You need to run a cooling system pressure test. It is most likely head gaskets as that is VERY common with the EJ25D. You should probably figure on replacing them. If you overheated it, you MUST change the oil as it is damaged. This leads to bottom end failure and is one of the reasons people avoid these engines as they have likely been abused in just this way. GD Edited July 5, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 I went to AutoZOne and got the coolant pressure tester and the foreign adaptor. I hooked it up and started pumping, but all of the air just bubbled out of the reservoir. How do I make that not happen? Regarding the coolant conditioner, I've been told by 2 owners of independent Subaru shops that the Bar's Leak is nearly identical to the Subaru stuff. They each recommended using it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I would use only one application of Barr's stop leak. If that doesn't stop the over heating, then it has to be a bad head gasket. On your Subie motor, what is happening in all probability is that exhaust gas is leaking into the coolant. This causes the over heating. The bubbles you are seeing is exhaust gas bubbles. This is a very common problem with the model Subaru that you own. Resist the temptation to drive it when it over heats. That will lead to destroying the motor. Only fix is to replace the head gaskets. Use genuine Subaru head gaskets only! Others from after market manufacturers just won't last long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 I would use only one application of Barr's stop leak. If that doesn't stop the over heating, then it has to be a bad head gasket. I did and it hasn't overheated in over 3 weeks. On your Subie motor, what is happening in all probability is that exhaust gas is leaking into the coolant. This causes the over heating. The bubbles you are seeing is exhaust gas bubbles. This is a very common problem with the model Subaru that you own. No, the engine is off and the bubbles are from the pump to pressurize the coolant system. I know this will go away once I determine how to plug up the coolant reservoir. How? Resist the temptation to drive it when it over heats. That will lead to destroying the motor. Only fix is to replace the head gaskets. Use genuine Subaru head gaskets only! Others from after market manufacturers just won't last long. It's no longer overheating, only disappearing coolant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Sounds like it's burning the coolant - if you have to add a quart a day then it's not an external leak - you would notice that much. The pressure tester should seal against the radiator neck and not allow pressure to escape into the overflow. If it's not sealing then there is either something wrong with the neck seal surface on the radiator, something wrong with the seal on the pressure tester, or the wrong adapter is being used. It's the head gaskets - it always is with these engines. They start small and work their way up - that's why it's often ignored till it can't be anymore and by then the damage to the bottom end is serious. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 Sounds like it's burning the coolant - if you have to add a quart a day then it's not an external leak - you would notice that much. The pressure tester should seal against the radiator neck and not allow pressure to escape into the overflow. If it's not sealing then there is either something wrong with the neck seal surface on the radiator, something wrong with the seal on the pressure tester, or the wrong adapter is being used. It's the head gaskets - it always is with these engines. They start small and work their way up - that's why it's often ignored till it can't be anymore and by then the damage to the bottom end is serious. GD How does the adaptor for the radiator neck fit over? It snugly hugs the lip, but the air I pump in goes right into the hose to the reservoir? I brought the car to the local dealer and asked that they check the HG. 30 minutes later they said "it's fine" but refused to check the disappearing coolant unless I ponied up money. They want $130. No thanks. I ran a block test with the fluid and tube. 3 times it came up negative for exhaust in the coolant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Head gaskets can fail in many ways - they can force exhaust gasses into the coolant, they can leak externally, they can mix coolant and oil, but they can also suck coolant into the combustion chamber and burn it. That's not going to show gasses in the coolant. The pressure tester has to seal not only on the very top of the neck but also on the "ridge" that's just below the hole for the overflow bottle tube. That ridge is the actual cooling system pressure seal - when the system pressure reaches a point higher than 0.9 Bar the spring on the cap lifts and allows excess pressure to escape into the overflow bottle. When the system cools it sucks the coolant back in through the same mechanism. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 Head gaskets can fail in many ways - they can force exhaust gasses into the coolant, they can leak externally, they can mix coolant and oil, but they can also suck coolant into the combustion chamber and burn it. That's not going to show gasses in the coolant. The pressure tester has to seal not only on the very top of the neck but also on the "ridge" that's just below the hole for the overflow bottle tube. That ridge is the actual cooling system pressure seal - when the system pressure reaches a point higher than 0.9 Bar the spring on the cap lifts and allows excess pressure to escape into the overflow bottle. When the system cools it sucks the coolant back in through the same mechanism. GD I guess the adaptor for foreign cars at AutoZone isn't the right one to use when trying to do a pressure test. The pressure test device they have does not fit my radiator input, thus the adaptor. How can I get it done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 how about pinching the hose going to the overflow bottle , take it off and fold it over ? all the best murph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 how about pinching the hose going to the overflow bottle , take it off and fold it over ? all the best murph THat might work, but it likely won't completely cut off the air flow, thus leading to a tainted reading. I'll try it tonight, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 Did another pressure leak down test. This time I removed the hose to the external tank and the pressure went in. Pumped it up to 16PSI in the yellow zone. Took about 10 minutes, but I heard a clear hissing and the pressure was going down very quickly. The hissing is coming the engine compartment- I would bet the headgasket. Yup.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Did another pressure leak down test. . could you describe how you did that? i need to get the equipment or adapter to do that. is it just a matter of connecting my air compressor to the spark plug hole to introduce compressed air? where do you get that kind of fitting? sorry to hear that news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 could you describe how you did that? i need to get the equipment or adapter to do that. is it just a matter of connecting my air compressor to the spark plug hole to introduce compressed air? where do you get that kind of fitting? sorry to hear that news. It's a kit you can rent from AutoZone. Go in and ask for the pressure tester and the foreign car adaptor. Pump it to 16 PSI and see what happens. It's not supposed to lose pressure as it's supposed to be a closed system. Yup, it is bad news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 oh sweet...the kit, not your predicament...i'd like to just buy one, i'll check out the kit then know what to buy. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rverdoold Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I removed the pressure from the release valve or radiotor cap by putting a piece of wire under the pin. This removed the pressure from the cooling system and drove 50K miles with it without ever filling up the cooling system. I had used bars leak stop once. I think my HG went but i never overheated the car. Stopped driving it after it failed MOT for rust in the back suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 What do you all know about putting ground up black pepper into the radiator? One of the mechanics at the shop swears by it and keep telling me to try it before I do anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 It can stop some kinds of leaks but it's not a permanent fix. The Subaru coolant conditioner (Holts) would probably be better and only costs $1.75 a bottle. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 It can stop some kinds of leaks but it's not a permanent fix. The Subaru coolant conditioner (Holts) would probably be better and only costs $1.75 a bottle. GD Possibly I'll try both. I hate black pepper in my food and have a bit laying around. Can't hurt if I am planning on replacing the engine anyhow, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Probably not going to hurt anything, no. Try the coolant conditioner just to see. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 Went to the local Subaru dealer and got a bottle of the Coolant Conditioner for $1.75. Then went to the grocery story and got a bottle of ground black pepper for the same price, exactly. Added both. Let car run for 15 min with heat on highest. Will check coolant level in the morning and do another leak pressure test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 Well now I am still confused. I ran a chemical block test using this test and it was negative both times I ran it. In addition to the lack of smoke coming from the tail pipe I am thinking that maybe my loss of pressure it coming from the water pump. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 I checked again tonight, doing another pressure leak down test. I got one of the mechanics to listen with his ears for the hissing. It turned out to be the upper radiator hose. I replaced it and then repressurized (after refilling the tank) and the pressure remained constant. I think I found my culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I had a heater hose drive me nuts like your problem, I finally found it on a cold day when I spotted the steam back by the fire wall. Congrats on finding your leak, better make sure all your hoses are in good shape. I replaced every hose after my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 New issue: When removing a radiator cap is it usual to have a strong suction/sucking feeling and noise accompany it? The upper radiator hose (which is new and perhaps a tiny bit too long) was under a bit of pressure and popped out when i removed the cap. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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