jackinthecrack Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I did some searching and didn't turn up much of anything to get started on....Here's my problem 93 AWD Legacy wagon, Rear diff seems to be binding up If you put it in either reverse or drive and move 20-30ft its almost like you are putting the e-break on and when to give it more gas it almost seems as if the rear wheels and breaking loose (as in more power then the front) I just picked up this subaru and am pretty new to them, The PO said that he had a shop (non/suby) do some servicing on the rearend and he said it did this ever since...true or not? dunno. Where should I start? Oh, its an Auto tranny too..I have all the service records (including all the paperwork for the motor replacement done 7300 miles ago by subaru) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Start with searching up Torque bind. This happened on my 93 Legacy years ago as well! In the end we spent $3000 on a tranny rebuild and it still didn't work properly. Best option if the tranny shifts fine, go to the dealership or a good subaru shop and get them to replace the rear half of the tranny ( doesn't involve tranny removal just rear prop shaft, crossmember mounts holding tranny, and undoing the rear of the tranny). You can probably find a whole good working tranny and use it for parts for cheap or most likely the solenoid just failed. Does the power light flash on startup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 Everything shifts fine. Power light doesn't flash, its steady when you start then goes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Interesting, try putting in the FWD fuse on the passenger side and see if it goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 Its already plugged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 and the FWD light on the dash is illuminated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 No FWD light. rear wheels are spinning too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I did some searching and didn't turn up much of anything to get started on....Here's my problem 93 AWD Legacy wagon, Rear diff seems to be binding up If you put it in either reverse or drive and move 20-30ft its almost like you are putting the e-break on and when to give it more gas it almost seems as if the rear wheels and breaking loose (as in more power then the front) I just picked up this subaru and am pretty new to them, The PO said that he had a shop (non/suby) do some servicing on the rearend and he said it did this ever since...true or not? dunno. Where should I start? Oh, its an Auto tranny too..I have all the service records (including all the paperwork for the motor replacement done 7300 miles ago by subaru) Two places to investigate. Do you have the same size tires front and rear with the same amount of wear? Small difference in tire size will give you the symptom you describe. If the non-suby shop did a service on the rear diff it's likely they just replaced the diff with a used one out of a junkyard. I'm not sure what rear diff is correct for your car, but it may be that the shop installed a rear diff with the wrong ratio. For the manual transmission cars of your year a 4.111 diff is the correct one; but a 3.900 diff is much more common in the junkyards. Somewhat far-fetched, but it bears looking into. I'm not familiar enough with the automatics to know what rear diff ratio is correct for your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 Two places to investigate. Do you have the same size tires front and rear with the same amount of wear? Small difference in tire size will give you the symptom you describe. If the non-suby shop did a service on the rear diff it's likely they just replaced the diff with a used one out of a junkyard. I'm not sure what rear diff is correct for your car, but it may be that the shop installed a rear diff with the wrong ratio. For the manual transmission cars of your year a 4.111 diff is the correct one; but a 3.900 diff is much more common in the junkyards. Somewhat far-fetched, but it bears looking into. I'm not familiar enough with the automatics to know what rear diff ratio is correct for your car. I think the rear diff is original...I believed they only replaced the seal, cause the bolts holding everything in place look factory tight, but I could be wrong. Tires are all the same, I don't see any obvious wear but they are probably about 40% gear ratio is the first thing that popped into my mind when I drove this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 No FWD light. rear wheels are spinning too. Well if the fuse is indeed in place the light should come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 No FWD light. rear wheels are spinning too. By "spinning" do you mean the rear wheels are getting power? Is the fuse you put in the FWD holder good? Or could this be caused by a bad duty c solenoid? Just some thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 What amp of fuse should it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 What amp of fuse should it be? any spare you have will do. i think, fuse in with NO fwd light means your duty c is bad. you can get them online with the 2 gaskets you need for about 100$, maybe less since it is 90 - 94. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 Well here's my problem, I thought the fwd fuse was a heavy duty type breaker type fuse.. To my suprise it's just a holder with no fuse in it:rolleyes: I'll put the fuse in when I get home, this is just a limp thing though I want to fix it right. Hopefully I can test it to see how the tranny works at highspeed. Bought this car to chop up and use for spares but it ended up being waaaay to nice to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Well here's my problem, I thought the fwd fuse was a heavy duty type breaker type fuse.. To my suprise it's just a holder with no fuse in it:rolleyes: I'll put the fuse in when I get home, this is just a limp thing though I want to fix it right. Hopefully I can test it to see how the tranny works at highspeed. Bought this car to chop up and use for spares but it ended up being waaaay to nice to do that. search and read up on torque bind, lots of info. the power to the rear wheels is controlled by fluid pressure, electrically, through the duty c solenoid. the fuse will put the car in FWD only. no power to the rear wheels. this should eliminate the binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 Ok, Put the fuse in backed out of the garage (tore 3 tiles up form the floor from the rear tire:mad:) And the rear wheels still are spinning, in fact I could hear a "clank" noise with fuse in place. FWD light was ON with fuse in. So I put it up on jack stands, fuse out or in the rear tires are moving...about the same speed as the front. I popped the plug from the rear diff to see if I could see any chunks of metal, nada, just stinky black gear oil. Sooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 Also note me CEL light is on, I'm leaning towards my duty c solenoid being shot Being as the rear tires are still being powered with the fwd fuse in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) Ok, Put the fuse in And the rear wheels still are spinning, in fact I could hear a "clank" noise with fuse in place. FWD light was ON with fuse in. if the FWD light is on your duty c is working, or at least it is perceived to be working. if you still have binding it is likely the transfer clutch plates. try a drain and re-fill of the trans fluid. do it several times with driving inbetween. if the plates are gunked up new fluid may help clean them up. Also note me CEL light is on, I'm leaning towards my duty c solenoid being shot Being as the rear tires are still being powered with the fwd fuse in a bad duty c will not give you a traditional CEL, it will give you a flashing "AT Temp" light, which indicates an electrical problem in the trans, ie: the duty c solenoid. as far as a repair is concerned, first see if the drain and fill helps. then you have to decide if you want to open it up and just replace the clutch plates or include the duty c. the cost of all parts vs. the labor to go in again the solenoid fails in the future. if you are really low on funds and the parts would keep you from feeding your elderly mother, you can always remove the rear section of the drive shaft. the front section has to remain or fluid will pump / spill out of the a$$ end of the trans. Edited July 15, 2010 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 I want to do it right, replacing clutch packs don't sound like an issue, I picked this car up for less then $800 with about 8k on the new motor. If flushing will help I'll do it, but sounds like a temp fix to what is glooming ahead of me, car has 225k on it the tranny looks it had been worked on at some point in time, lot of grease above it and the trans is fairly clean. I have 40 gallons of ATF fluid so I'll flush it a few times and see how it goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Don't waste your time and fluids. The solenoid is dead simple. I had a dead solenoid and the FWD light still worked its just a pinout to the ecu, not straight to the wire going to the solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 (edited) Yeah, thats exactly what it was....a waste of time. 4 gallons of ATF later and nada. Are these clutch packs and solenoids NLA or something? I searched the top online suby parts dealers and came up with only stuff for 96 and up Edited July 16, 2010 by jackinthecrack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Send them an email and they can find what you need. I wanna say the transfer clutches are the same but it might be one of those little things that changed during the OBD2 changeover. So the trans is clean, but the area all around it is greasy, and the rear end looks like it hasn't been touched. Sounds like a trans swap to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 Trans swap was what I was thinkig too, the ATF fluid that I drained smelled really cooked and was almost totally brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) That can happen in a very short amount of time if the trans is working overtime trying to move the car if the wheels are going different speeds. Front diff spinning slower than the rear will not only wear out the transfer clutches, but also cause the output shaft of the trans (not the driveshaft, but the one between the actual transmission and transfer/extension housing) to spin faster than the front differential pinion shaft. This would put extra stress on the clutches of the transmission and might even cause them to slip after the transfer clutch pack locks up. If that's the case, I'd disconnect that rear shaft before driving the car any further. You need to find out for sure if the front and rear diff ratios are different. Even if you have to count the teeth on the ring gear through the drain hole in the case. You can mark the tires at the same point on each tire with a grease pen or bright colored paint and drive it straight forward 50 feet or so. If the marks don't line up after driving it the diff ratios are different. You should be able to find the part number on the transmission on the drivers side of the bellhousing somewhere near the starter. I think you can use that to determine the diff ratio but I'm not 100% sure. Edited July 17, 2010 by Fairtax4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinthecrack Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Okay, took the rear shaft out. After doing ALOT of reading and parts hunting, I'm pretty sure the solenoid is shot and possibly the clutches cooked. SO, no one online has clutches or the solenoid listed but the dealer locally can order them (solenoid was $140!) and the he guy at the parts counter gave me a funny look when I started talking about clutches in the tranfercase....I even asked for clutch pack, he kept giving me qoutes for reverse/2nd/3rd. I left a message at subarupartsforu.com but no call backs, since they listed 96 and up clutchpacks. How long can I get away with driving this like this without the rear driveshaft installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now