jensen0510 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Subie still no go. Replaced the knock sensor and it still won't fire. Started checking individual cylinders for fire, and not getting spark on #3. Coil? Switched wires around and it is specific to the #3 port on the coil Do I buy a new coil, a new igniter? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 do you have a junkyard near you that you could get a used one from - they dont fail that often - and this could be related to the overheat incident you suspect... would be a lot cheaper to get a used one if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Latest update......tried a new coil, close but no cigar It tries to fire now, but now I have a new development........After trying to crank the car, I walked back to the front and here this gurgling sound. I loosen the radiator cap and it sprays water everywhere...... I think I got a busted head gasket/head, thus the reason it no run....exchange of bodily fluids....does this sound right to anyone else...I have much evidence now of an extreme overheating episode....new radiator, oil smells burnt, pressure in the radiator when it is cold after cranking, melted knock sensor. What kind of job am I looking at to pull the engine? Is it worth it, can it be rebuilt? What kind of cost. Can I pull the heads with the engine in the car? Bummer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 yeah, hate to say it, but it does sound very much like a HG failure. if the body is in decent shape it would be worth while to just pick up a used motor & swap them out - the 2.2 is not generally prone to major problems unless they are seriously abused (which it sounds like this one was, unfortunately) sorry it is in such poor shape...good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 Well, I've decided to cut my losses on this one. I'm already into it for about $200 in parts and I have no idea how much more I'd have to spend. Even if I bought a different motor, I have no idea what other electrical gremlins I might have, or if there are other problems with the drivetrain. So I've decided to see if anyone here is interested in any of the parts before I scrap it. It has a brand new radiator, new coil, new knock sensor, the power windows work. The car is complete...let me know if any of you need any parts, and i'll make you a good deal. BTW, I'm in Northwest Arkansas if anybody wants the entire car. I just don't have the time to invest in it....I need wheels Thanks, to everyone for your help!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Melted knock sensor is a big clue - have you done a compression check? Last engine I saw like that was completely wasted internally - melted part of the cylinder liner in one hole...... My bet is that it's totally shot - I would have run a comp. check first thing. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Sorry this one didn't work out for you, jensen. Wish you could have experienced a smooth running EJ22 and the reassuring feeling of dependability they usually give. Maybe throwing a new (used) engine in it would have given you a good ride--but who knows? I can certainly understand your not wanting to throw anymore time/money into it. Good luck--and hope you can find the right Subie some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 I am too, I was really hoping I'd be able to get it running, I'm sure I could if I had the time to find another engine. Unfortunately I sold my Jeep Wrangler tonight (it was my daily driver) to get rid of the payment. I was hoping to use the subaru as cheap transportation. As it stands I have to get wheels ASAP!!! Thanks again for everyone's help, you have all been great!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 sorry to hear, man - if you were closer we could hook you up with a decent motor - have a couple of parts cars out in the yard. keep your eyes open, who knows, maybe you will find that gem yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 OK, so I guess I haven't given up yet.... I have 2 options I'm looking at now......gee I'm indecisive!!! 1) Run Compression test try to narrow down if it is one side or both that has bad head gasket. If only one side tear down that side in the car, and buy a felpro headgasket and install. Slap some permagasket on the intake manifold and try to start it and see if it will run. If it works go get real gaskets and put it together right. If it doesn't I'm out a coupla hours and $35 bucks, (I know I should use a Subie gasket, but they are in another town 35 minutes away and are only open 8-5 when I'm working)....if it doesn't work..... 2) I found a MUCH better complete engine close enough to here, that I can go get for $300 and swap in. What would you do? Thanks again for your input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Not indecisive--when time and money are tight you have to think things through carefully. Am happy that you have some options to consider. Quite honestly after your horror stories (and melted knock sensors) I don't think I'd ever trust the original engine. Look the $300 engine over and see what you think--it might be the best bet. If you go with it, give it as thorough a going-over as you can--front end especially. Good luck and please do keep us up on your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 yup - from the description given of the original engine - replace it! if it was overheated to the point of melting things on the outside, then the internals are seriously cooked as well and very prone to catastrophic failure. just yank that puppy outta there and replace it with one that hasnt been so seriously abused. Yes, these are tough engines, BUT with that kind of abuse - uh, no... go get the other engine - do a timing belt service (belt, pulleys, waterpump, seals, etc) drop it in the car and you should be good to go for many miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 Thanks, I think I'm going to take a roadtrip on Sunday to go look at the other engine. I'll keep you updated on what it looks like!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share Posted July 24, 2010 I found an engine for the legacy. I scored a 93 EJ22 from a legacy with 115K miles. I also got the igniter, ECU, and mass air...all for $175 and within 80 miles of my house!!!! YEEEHAAA. I've already read on here that I'll need to swap the wiring harnesses, because the one in my car has 3 plugs, the one on the 93 model engine has 2 plugs. Are there any tips on pulling the motor, things to watch out for getting it out or back in? I've found lots of stuff on the forum about switching an EJ22 into other cars, but I have yet to find reference to the steps necessary for removing the engine and replacing it. Any thoughts? Looks like I might get to drive this car under it's own power yet!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Yay, sounds great! Here's an engine pulling thread from a few years ago that may be of help: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=59033 Someone did a pretty good writeup with pix not long ago but I can't recall who/what/when. Anybody remember? Good luck--hope all goes well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 LOL - olnick - I have that very same thread bookmarked! seem to recall the other one you are thinking of, but darn if I can remember who/where, etc either...it sucks getting old... jensen - congrats on finding the motor & stuff - and at a good price, too! if your car is an auto, be real careful about the torque converter (there is more about that in that thread olnick posted) - if it is a manual, check the clutch & stuff - if it is pretty worn, might as well replace it while you have the access. Good Luck & keep us posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 this might help as well - Skip's engine removal page It is actually for the 2.5, but the basic steps should be pretty similar as far as pulling the motor and he has pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 OK, I got the engine swapped out..it runs, and yes I know I should have changed the seals before I put it in, but I didn't cuz I wasn't going to invest another dollar in this thing until I heard the sweet sound of the Sooobie...... Now I've heard it run, I backed it down the driveway, and I pulled it back up the driveway, so the drivetrain works. Now the bad, I have 2 issues. The first I think will either go away, or I have a major problem. The second I think I should have done what you guys said. First. I pressure washed the engine compartment while the engine was out. I'm pretty sure I got some water in the exhaust system while I was washing it out. I'm also fairly confidant a fair amount of coolant from the old engine went out one of the exhaust valves from the old engine. After getting the engine back in, I filled the radiator with straight water. When I started the car there was antifreeze coming out the exhaust. It's still coming out, and the thing blows steam like a beast after the exhaust warms up. Any idea how long this will last before I have to start to wonder if the new engine has a problem. I would expect if it was a problem with the new engine it would begin to do it as soon as you started the engine, rather than after the exhaust warmed up. Thoughts? Second, I have a major oil leak on the front of the engine. I didn't check any of the seals before installing the engine. Like I said, I wanted to make sure it ran before I put any more $$$ in it. it's leaking from the middle of the timing belt cover, I assuming main seal, or oil pump, how hard is it to do these? BTW, the motor sounds great. It seems to run a little rough, but I'll get that worked out I'm sure. Thanks for your help!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzpile Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Glad you got another engine and got all that work done. You probably changed plugs. The old coolant in the exhaust isn't going well with the sensors and cats really hate it. There is probably a place you could drill a hole for the liquid form to leak out then run a screw up it. The smoke is aggravating while it's baking out. You can run hose (like an actual garage hose) or even a shopvac hose into a bucket of water to filter that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Great news, sounds like you're well on your way! Can't offer any suggestions on the first issue. Just hope the coolant burns out of the exhaust without doing any damage I guess. On your second issue, you're in luck because you can work on the front end without yanking the engine again. Pull the oil pump and check it over, they're pretty rugged so chances are it's okay. Make sure the screws that hold the pump's backing plate are tight. Then remount it with a new o-ring and a bead of ultra-grey sealant. Definitely put in new crank & cam seals (suggest Subaru OEM.) New timing belt would be a wise investment now. Check all your idlers--the cogged one nearest the waterpump is usually first to go. Check the tensioner for proper operation (compress it very slowly.) And of course it's a great time to install a new waterpump too! Hope all goes well from here on. And hope you get to roll along behind a smooth EJ22 soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 Great news, sounds like you're well on your way! Can't offer any suggestions on the first issue. Just hope the coolant burns out of the exhaust without doing any damage I guess. On your second issue, you're in luck because you can work on the front end without yanking the engine again. Pull the oil pump and check it over, they're pretty rugged so chances are it's okay. Make sure the screws that hold the pump's backing plate are tight. Then remount it with a new o-ring and a bead of ultra-grey sealant. Definitely put in new crank & cam seals (suggest Subaru OEM.) New timing belt would be a wise investment now. Check all your idlers--the cogged one nearest the waterpump is usually first to go. Check the tensioner for proper operation (compress it very slowly.) And of course it's a great time to install a new waterpump too! Hope all goes well from here on. And hope you get to roll along behind a smooth EJ22 soon! So is the oil pump, or the crankshaft seal usually the cause of a massive amount of oil coming from the middle of the timing belt cover? Can I replace the Crankshaft seal without removing the oil pump. Now that I think about it, if it was leaking around the oil pump to crankcase o-ring, I'd see that behind the timing belt cover on the block. What I'm seeing is coming from inside the timing belt cover. Can I replace the crankshaft seal without removing the oil pump....just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 (edited) So is the oil pump, or the crankshaft seal usually the cause of a massive amount of oil coming from the middle of the timing belt cover? the crank shaft seal is mounted in the oli pump which is bolted on to the block and the crank shaft extends out through the middle of it. so yes, you can replace the crank seal without pulling the oil pmp. but why would you?? you have to remove the timing belt (and compress the tensioner for re-install) to do the crank seal so you might as well do all you can while you are in there, especially considereing that the pump o-ring is under a dollar at the dealer and a tube of ultra gray is under 6$ (?) at the parts store. it will take less than an hour to clean up, tighten the backing plate screws and re-seat the oil pump. the oil could also be coming from the cam seals, but you will not know until you remove the timing covers. again the same argument applies, spend a few $$ on seals and another hour and do them as well. that way when you put it back together you will not have to remove it again until the belt or an idler breaks. replace them and the water pump and you are good for 60k miles. other leaks can be addressed without removing the timing belt. Edited July 26, 2010 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Exactly what johnc said! Why do half a job when you've gone to all the effort of opening up the front end? The oil pump o-ring is every bit as important as the crank seal. And it's really so easy to do it's a no-brainer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Just remembered something else you might want to replace while you are into the front end. Check out "Cam support o-rings" in avk's post: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61591&highlight=o-ring There is one o-ring on the front of the left (driver's side) cam and a matching one on the rear of the right (passenger's side) cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensen0510 Posted July 27, 2010 Author Share Posted July 27, 2010 OK, it's torn down to the timing belt, I know I should do more, but I'm thinking I'm going to replace the cam seals and the crankshaft seal, along with checking the oil pump and replacing the o-ring. The timing belt is still dry and clean, so I'm going to re-use it, only because, I'm removing the timing belt covers and I have a spare timing belt off the old engine as well. I know I should buy a new water pump, and timing belt, but honestly, I need to spend the money on a new drive axle for the front passenger side (boot is missing) and 3 new tires, then she will be road worthy and I can worry about other stuff as it comes up. So for my next question, what is the best way to hold the cam sprockets if you don't have the special tool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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