Broke down today

[subaruplatt]

Coming back from brantford and lost a couple of cylinders or something on the highway.

 

Wobbling and way down on power I exited the highway and stopped at a gas station which was luckily near by.

I shut it down and then had it towed. ouch towing and taxi home cost me over $200

 

Seemed like it came from the passengers side.

 

Could be head gasket or timing belt.

Could be electrical or fuel injection or even computer?

Didn't over heat and wasn't low on oil.

Didn't leak water or oil.

Did see check engine light.

It happened very quickly not a progressive thing at all.

 

I will see tomorrow.

 

06 Impreza Wagon Auto 56000 Km

Edited July 19, 2010 by subaruplatt
still composing

[GeneralDisorder]

Check for spark - might have lost half the coil or ignitor.

 

GD

[subaruplatt]

Good news is if it's not the engine but bad news is they won't cover electrical under major mechanical.

 

If that is the case I will have new plugs and wires as well as a new coil.

So I will pay$$$

and still out the towing charge.

I will find out tomorrow.

[Rooster2]

Check for spark - might have lost half the coil or ignitor.

 

GD

 

I agree with General Disorder's advise in that you might have lost half the coil pack. Spark plugs and spark plug wires don't wear out, or break instantaneously as you have described. Don't waste your money on replacing them right now, as the source of fixing your problem.

 

Get a read out on the check engine light code. I am betting that the code will tell you exactly what is wrong.

[ericem]

That sucks a 06 Subie died?? Any recent work done?

[subaruplatt]

No work done recently regular oil changes.

No compression in cylinder 1 caused by some sort of stuck valve.

Car won't be ready until thursday at the earliest.

Service rep says that the head needs to be pressure tested looking for cracks.

He said that it was not the timing belt and that the valve never came into contact with the piston. How is this possible?

Could the valve have been working just not closing all the way? He asked me about my oil service intervals and I replied that It had been changed 5,500 Km ago which is what they do also at 6000 km.

The synthetic oil was still very clean.

 

I am going to pay to have them install a new timing belt for the rebuild ( they were just going to toss the old on back on ) and I am also considering spark plugs as well as an oil change.

Is there anything else I should consider paying them to do?

[GeneralDisorder]

Sounds like a simple warantee issue. Things like this do crop up from time to time - casting flaw or machining error perhaps. As with any mass produced machine you are going to have an occasional random failure.

 

I would guess that the valve hung open slightly but not far enough to hit the piston top. Perhaps a valve seat came loose? Either that or a tweaked valve guide or maybe a stray bit of casting got lodged between the guide and the valve stem..... etc.

 

In the business we call these "SCR Failures". SCR stands for "Stray Cosmic Ray" .

 

Sounds like you have a handle on it. Timing belt really isn't neccesary as they are good for 105k miles and frankly if it were me I wouldn't want to skip the 105k belt change as that's about when the water pump, front seals, and all the idlers/tensioners ought to be changed from a preventative standpoint. Personally I don't subscribe to this "we only change the belt and never anything else unless it fails" mentality. If one of those items fails it's going to BREAK the belt and then you are in for a world of $hit.

 

GD

[subaruplatt]

What about plugs would you change them?

[ericem]

Ya might as well There only $10 for 4 at the dealer anyway. The wires should be fine.

[GeneralDisorder]

Plugs and wires can be done anytime very easily - you could do those on your own. If it were me - I would regap them and put them back in. Very unlikely the electrodes are burned away to the point of requireing replacement. Clean and regap - there is really not much point in replacement yet.

 

GD

[subaruplatt]

It was confirmed that the valve seat was toasted and or loose.

It also dropped the valve and that is why it didn't do damage to the valve train or the piston.

Found out they are going to use a fresh factory head , but am dismayed that they are going to recycle polish or regrind all but one of the valves , and from what I can tell the rest of my valve train including the cam shaft. How kosher is this practice mixing old parts with new ? I am assured that valve guides and seals will all be new. Are the valve guides already pressed into the head when they get it? Do they have to use new bearings throughout or can they recycle them too?

 

I am decided to get a new timing belt, plugs, and synthetic oil.

I have also requested anti seize on the plugs.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

David

[ericem]

Id just do spark plugs, and oil change. Don't bother spending the coin for the timing belt, water pump, etc till that interval don't let this restart the maintenance routine.

[GeneralDisorder]

Found out they are going to use a fresh factory head , but am dismayed that they are going to recycle polish or regrind all but one of the valves , and from what I can tell the rest of my valve train including the cam shaft. How kosher is this practice mixing old parts with new ?

 

Perfectly acceptable. The valves will be ground and lapped to the new seats. That is normal practice on a rebuild even when engines have several hundred thousand miles - valves are not replaced unless burned/chipped or too thin to do a proper grind. Cams are never replaced unless damaged, etc. You are over-thinking this situation in the extreem. They are doing exactly what needs to be done - change the head due to the bad valve seat. The rest of these components are not a weak link in the engine - head gaskets and rod bearings will claim it somewhere after 300k miles - none of the things you are concerned about would be worn to any real extent even then.

 

I am assured that valve guides and seals will all be new. Are the valve guides already pressed into the head when they get it? Do they have to use new bearings throughout or can they recycle them too?

 

Yes - the head will come with valve guides and seats installed. There are no replaceable bearings anywhere in the valve train except the rockers which likely will never need replacement in the life of the engine and would not have been dissasembled anyway.

 

I am decided to get a new timing belt, plugs, and synthetic oil.

I have also requested anti seize on the plugs.

 

None of that is neccesary and anti-seize is standard practice for plug threads but if it makes you feel better...... You should still replace the timing belt and all associated components at the reccomended 105k interval. Thus a new belt at this time is a waste of money. EJ belts are thick and strong and breakage is VERY rare - even when run long past their interval. Replacing it is just throwing money away frankly.

 

GD

[subaruplatt]

Thanks GeneralDisorder !

Do you have a good illustration of the valve train so I may understand it better?

I am also interested in learning how the simple v-teck works in these engines.

 

Even though I am going a bit overboard in this situation the new belt and plugs will give me peace of mind.

 

Thanks

[AWDfreak]

Thanks GeneralDisorder !

Do you have a good illustration of the valve train so I may understand it better?

I am also interested in learning how the simple v-teck works in these engines.

 

Even though I am going a bit overboard in this situation the new belt and plugs will give me peace of mind.

 

Thanks

 

In Honda nomenclature, it's spelled "VTEC", I don't understand why that's so hard to spell. :-\

 

In the world of Subaru, it's AVCS, or "Active Valve Control System".

 

To be honest, I've never taken a close look of Subaru's variable valve timing, only at some Honda and Fiat designs. But I do know that a large majority of variable valve timing mechanisms work through oil pressure. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

Glad to know it worked out though.

[subaruplatt]

Update. The dealer was told by Subaru Canada to replace both heads, so now they need to order and prep another one for the drivers side.

I am going in to pick up a replacement vehicle this morning.

 

I wunder why they have to replace both sides?

Balance?

Will I get the new metal gasket and heads from 2010?

Are the heads/gaskets for the new model compatible?

[GeneralDisorder]

I wunder why they have to replace both sides?

 

Subaru probably suspects that the same flaw exists on both heads.

 

You may not know this, but Subaru uses the same castings for both right and left heads - only some of the port drilling and machining are different. Thus if there was a flaw in some parts used durring manufacture of the heads (improperly ground seats, etc) then it could exist on both sides. This is all the more likely given both of the original heads were likely made side-by-side on the same equipment. They may have seen this before and they know that it wasn't an isolated case thus they are making sure that there is no possilbility of a second failure.

 

Good stuff. Glad they are taking care of you!

 

GD

[subaruplatt]

Here are two pictures of the work in progress.

So far the left head is mostly completed.

I got a recent model forester as a replacement.

[GeneralDisorder]

Based on the pictures that would be the "right" head. Right/Left is always as if you were sitting in the car.

 

Looks good thus far. I'm surprised they didn't pull the engine - makes head gasket type work a lot easier. But then I hate bending over an engine bay - kills my back.

 

GD

[subaruplatt]

Got the car back and the engine is running smoothly.

Idle is low and the engine is quiet.

I am going to attach a parts summary.

These are the part numbers subaru canada chose for an 06 impreza wagon auto.

Edited July 25, 2010 by subaruplatt

[subaruplatt]

Just thought I might do a follow up. The newly reassembled engine is running beautifully and now has over 200KM running at various city speeds.

The AVCS seems much smoother, before it would just kick in, in an on and off manner. Now it seems to operate progressively and is a transparent part of RPM.

 

The engine is pulling stronger at 1500 rpm. So even though the transmission doesn't always downshift the car is bogging less.

The only thing i notice is a very slight stumble on take off some times, but this isn't a problem goes away when warmed up. I read that if your valve clearances are on the tighter side that's what you get.

The engine sounds like it loosens up after it is good and warmed up.

There are zero leaks:banana:

 

REMOVED BOTH CYLINDER HEADS,SENT TO MACHINE

SHOP FOR TESTING FOUND BOTH EXHAUST SIDE GUIDES

DROPPING.BURNT ONE EXHAUST VALVE ON THE RIGHT

SIDE HEAD. SUBLET SHOP OVERHAULLED TRANSFERED

ALL PARTS FROM THE OlD HEADS REPLACED NEW VALVE

SEALS CAMSHAFT SEALS

 

What does this all mean why it happened I will never know. ?

Just hopefully it wont happen again.

[subaruplatt]

I just did a 221 KM drive. Once again all is good!

1 litre took me 13 km s.

That equals about 30.6 MPG for US.

It is 36.7 imperial gallons per mile.

[subaruplatt]

I noticed that the 10104AA070XX ENG GSKT SET is not a part I found listed for my 06 impreza wagon.

http://www.dealerdirectparts.com/2004-SUBARU-FORESTER-X-Engine-Cylinder-Hea-p/subaru-5746980-for-x-4.htm

 

But according to opposed forces

http://opposedforces.com/parts/impreza/us_g11/type_27/engine/engine_gasket_and_seal_kit/illustration_3/

 

I should have 10105AB020 GASKET & SEAL KIT

 

https://content.subarunet.com/snet/_content/fixed_operations/parts_quick_reference_guide/Pg%2072-74.pdf

 

Below is a list of the parts installed last year.

What is the difference between the recommended 10105AB020 GASKET & SEAL KIT and the 10104AA070XX ENG GSKT SET I got ?

 

Bellow is the list of parts.

11039AB890 HEAD ASSY-CYL RH

13202AA371 VALVE-EXH

13207AA120 SEAL-INT VALVE

13211AA110 SEAL-EXH VALVE

806732150 0ILSEAL-32X45X8

10104AA070XX ENG GSKT SET

21236AA010 GSKT-THERMO

44616AA030 GASKET -EXHAUST

11063AB310 HEAD ASSY -CYL LH

13294AA070 GSKT-ROCKER COVER

11044AA633 GSKT-CYL HEAD

13207AA120 SEAL-INT VALVE

13211AA 110 SEAL-EXH VALVE

10966AA030 GSKT -SPARK PL PIP

902370010 FLANGE NUT (WAS 9 2

Technician: 12

install new timing belt

REPLACE TIMING BELT NO LABOUR

13028AA231 BEL T-TIMING