Should I buy 01 H-6 3.0 LLBean?

[KaraK]

Please Help! I need to find out as much as possibe about this car in the next couple hours, there's a high pressure salesman hounding me. Car has 109K, front brakes/tires done last fall. Had some tranny work done, seals, and cv I think. There seems to be some wind noise, driver side window, near mirror area. This car appears to be in "like new" condition, However it is at the very top of my price range (blue book $) What should I look out for? Is there scheduled maint. due?? Any tips greatly appreciated, seems salesman knows less about this car than I do. Thanks for your help.

[lmdew]

The wind noise is a common issue on this car. The engine is solid. I would not over pay, there are always other cars out there.

 

Did you get a car fax history?

 

Look at Edmunds True Market Value and off them the middle of the road price.

 

You have time? They want to sell.

[johnceggleston]

Please Help! I need to find out as much as possibe about this car in the next couple hours, there's a high pressure salesman hounding me. Car has 109K, front brakes/tires done last fall. Had some tranny work done, seals, and cv I think. There seems to be some wind noise, driver side window, near mirror area. This car appears to be in "like new" condition, However it is at the very top of my price range (blue book $) What should I look out for? Is there scheduled maint. due?? Any tips greatly appreciated, seems salesman knows less about this car than I do. Thanks for your help.

 

if he's hounding you, offer 2k less than asking price and then, when he counter offers, walk away. see if he hounds you then..

 

also , make them prove that the timing belt has been done, or reduce the price by 1000$ - 600$

Edited July 22, 2010 by johnceggleston

[KaraK]

Thanks sooo much for your reply, I have never bought a car from a dealer before, have never even thought of spending this much for a vehicle, but I caught the Subaru bug from a guy in Milwaukee while looking at his older, MUCH less expensive, 2.2L Outback. Since then, I have been looking online alot, but by the time I call/ E Mail anything that looks OK, is SOLD! Aren't these H6's rare? I have not seen a carfax, are dealers obligated to provide these? In the past I've thought carfax were kinda useless, but I've always driven cheap older cars and worked on them myself. I am kinda needing something soon as my 2 cars both crapped out in the last 2 months, and I am borrowing my father in laws truck. The price with tax and whatnot , is $ 8,750.

[KaraK]

I offered 4k less than their asking price, this is a notoriously high priced dealer. Given the crap that I'm used to driving, I'm just freaked in general to spend this much money on anything. I was really happy to hear that the H6 has a timing chain, not a belt.

[Olnick]

To answer the question in your title: No! (Not under pressure anyway!)

 

I've heard that the H-6 is a good engine, only weakness might be the timing chain guides (?) but that's only hearsay since I've never even seen an H-6.

 

If you really like the car (try not to let it show too much!) tell the salesman you like it . . . but not at the price they're asking. Then turn and walk away. He'll come after you--remember, he's under more pressure to sell than you are to buy!

 

BTW, loved your descriptions of him, "high pressure salesman hounding me" then "seems salesman knows less about this car than I do." Ain't it the truth!!!

 

Good luck.

[Rooster2]

Don't let any high pressure salesman bother you with any high pressure tactics of urgency, like someone else wants to buy the car, or to get a lower price, you have to decide to buy NOW. Remember you are in control, because you have the money. He who has the money has the control. If he is bugging you, tell him so, and if he persists, tell him you want to deal with another sales person, not him, at the dealership. Also, tell him you have several more cars to look at, even if this isn't necessarily so.

 

It is simply of matter of just stepping forward with authority to control the situation.

 

I am an old industrial salesman, so I was the sales game years ago.

[KaraK]

Thanks for your comments, I feel better about dealing with this salesman. I went to the Edmunds site, and it seems to be a reasonable price for this car. I do like it, and it appears in good condition. He wanted me to buy today, I'm not gonna. I guess I'll ask for the carfax tomorow, so, anyone with insight on mechanical issues I need to be on the lookout for, please continue to comment. Thanks!!

[KaraK]

O.K. After 5 hours of USMB, I have learned to use the search. However, many of the comments were from several years ago, several posts stated they haven't been around long enough to have high miles. Sooo from what I can tell right now, I may or may not have to change the timing chain at 150K for much $$$. There may be throttle position sensor issues, and it requires high octane gas. Also, I live in an area with the reformulated gas (10% Ethanol) will this be a problem?? Can anyone clarify the above issues for me? and/or come up with others?? Thanks.

[Rooster2]

Thanks for your comments, I feel better about dealing with this salesman. I went to the Edmunds site, and it seems to be a reasonable price for this car. I do like it, and it appears in good condition. He wanted me to buy today, I'm not gonna. I guess I'll ask for the carfax tomorow, so, anyone with insight on mechanical issues I need to be on the lookout for, please continue to comment. Thanks!!

 

Sounds like with a little time having passed, the effect of the hounding salesman is starting to wear off, and you don't feel as stressed out. Good idea to ask for the carfax tomorrow. If you have a good trusted worthy mechanic that you have taken your car to in the past, then consider taking this car to that mechanic for an evaluation. Cost might be maybe $35, but it could be the best money you have ever spent. The mechanic will check out the condition of the suspension, exhaust, tires, brakes, and motor to give you an honest opinion of the car, and what deficiencies it might have. All used cars have some deficiencies, some that are minor and some that are major. If you go this route, and still want to buy the car, then use this deficiency information in further negotiations with the salesman in lowering the price. Remember, you are in a business negotiation; the salesman wants to sell the car for as much as he can, you want to buy the car for as little as you possible. There in lies the game. This game is nothing to be afraid of. Determine the fair market value for the car, and what you want to spend. If the salesman can't, or won't meet YOUR terms, then don't continue playing the game. Don't feel bad about walking away from any deal. I usually say something like "it is a shame we can't get together on price, but I guess this deal was not meant to be," if I don't like the deal. (Remember there are thousands of cars for sale all the time. Don't get emotionally attached to a car that you feel that you MUST buy.) Don't be surprised if within 24 hours, the salesman will contact you with a more favorable offer. The salesman is still wanting to play "the game." The game is never over until it is over.

 

It always helps to take someone along with you when buying a car for moral support, and the fresh ideas they will have in negotiating. Good luck to you tomorrow!

[idosubaru]

that's a great car and it sounds like a fair price...given i can't see the thing.

one owner vehicle is a very good thing. multiple owners not as good.

 

might want to read cars101.com about 2002 changes, i think there's a few upgrades to the 02+ models. i made a spread sheet when i was looking for one and thought i remembered wanting an 02+ for some reason but can't recall why.

 

the H6 engine is awesome. no need to worry about the timing chain, they're intended to last the life of the vehicle and so far they're doing an outstanding job. you are highly unlikely to need any TPS work, those are infrequent. and if you do it's no big deal.

 

what i would worry about is the tensioner pulley bearings - i can nearly promise you they will fail. but they're super simple and i fixed mine in 15 minutes. they are a maintenance item on this car. based on that same recommendation when i bought my H6, i removed my perfectly fine working tensioner and idler pulleys....and it was not in good shape. would have never known if i didn't read about it on a subaru forum. removed them and replaced the two $3 bearings with new ones. subaru won't replace just the bearings, they probably only replace the entire pulleys.

 

either way i'd request them to replace both of those - printing out the documented online threads about them if you have too. and i'd have them fix that wind noise.

 

Subaru has an updated Gusset for the wind noise - it's like $180 per side. known issue, subaru updated the part, this car has the issues - ask them to repair it with the known fix that Subaru created. it's really annoying on long trips.

 

another solution, which may only be temporary, is to roll the window down and squeeze the part there that the window travels through together with your finger. roll the window back up and the noise is gone. might be for awhile, might come back tomorrow. don't do it in front of the salesmen!

 

don't forget frequent oil changes for the timing chain components.

[monk50]

I have 2 3.0 Subs. 05 outback sedan and wagon. One with 85 K sedan with 45K miles.

True about the wind noise.

Inner CV boots went at 82 K on the wagon, weak point as they are located near heat source and dealer replaces the entire axle which is expensive 369 for axle without labor. But if you do the job yourself and replace the boots only around $20 for the parts if you catch the break early.

Otherwise the cars have been good serviceable cars with no problems. Live in NC and run regular in both cars without problems.

One additional problem is the awkard changing the plugs, very close tolerances with car frame makes changing of the plugs difficult but doable.

 

Question for grossgary, do you have additional information on the tensioner bearing? Ie which bearing, where to acquire said bearings, and how long to change, maybe a discussion of how to change with pics.

 

Not meaning to hijack but hopefully questions that will serve all.

Thanks

[CNY_Dave]

Some 2001's had to have the chain guides replaced early, making the '01 a little less desirable.

 

Unless you are after the trim package or do a lot of highway miles, I wouldn't say chase an H6, but if you do a lot of freeway/over 60 driving it's a useful upgrade.

 

Mine sees almost 100mi a day, and it cruises a bit over 80 still under 3k rpm.

 

Smooth, baby!

 

Dave

[CNY_Dave]

I have 2 3.0 Subs. 05 outback sedan and wagon. One with 85 K sedan with 45K miles.

True about the wind noise.

Inner CV boots went at 82 K on the wagon, weak point as they are located near heat source and dealer replaces the entire axle which is expensive 369 for axle without labor. But if you do the job yourself and replace the boots only around $20 for the parts if you catch the break early.

Otherwise the cars have been good serviceable cars with no problems. Live in NC and run regular in both cars without problems.

One additional problem is the awkard changing the plugs, very close tolerances with car frame makes changing of the plugs difficult but doable.

 

Question for grossgary, do you have additional information on the tensioner bearing? Ie which bearing, where to acquire said bearings, and how long to change, maybe a discussion of how to change with pics.

 

Not meaning to hijack but hopefully questions that will serve all.

Thanks

 

Napa 6203-2rsj is one that fits. Unbolt the pulley and the bearing is lightly pressed into the back of the bearing.

 

The tensioner pulley has a nut behind it that falls off (it fits in a hex recess so you don't have to put a wrench on it).

 

Dave

[idosubaru]

subaruoutback.org has a great thread about it, i'd find that if you're not comfortable just yet. it's a REALLY easy job. it sounds hard since most folks don't "press bearings", but it was about as easy as peeling an apple. get a socket about the same size and the old bearing tapped out really easy with a hammer.

[J A Blazer]

My approach to used car purchases from car dealers - ask for the name and phone number of the previous owner. If they provide it, call that person; if they refuse, walk away.

[KaraK]

Update on the 01 H6: I drove it to a mechanic today, not a Subaru guy, corner garage guy. He found the following: engine oil overfilled, rear axel seal seeping, power steering leak, rack and pinion OR line, valve cover gaskets seeping, transmission pan seal seeping, all 02 sensors have been replaced. Some things I noticed, the CD player would not play a "home burned" CD that plays fine in a Ford Focus. (It's the weather band one, with CD and cassette, but not the McFancy one I've been reading about) and the fog lights didn't work. Thank You All for the great tips!! P.S. There were 2 prev. owners, I got the phone# for most recent P.P.S. They wouldn't give me a Car-Fax, they gave me a "Auto-Check" which seems like a Car-Fax, does this matter??

Edited July 24, 2010 by KaraK
Add PS

[Olnick]

Good going! Now you have a laundry list to go back and bargain with. If you still want the car. The items don't sound like deal-breakers to me (but I'd love to hear what H6 owners think.)

 

Now you can go back and make a lowball offer "to take it off their hands!!!"

[SubieDaddy80]

They wouldnt give you a carfax??? Hmmmmm.......Interesting. Like Olnick said, use the nice list you have now to barter with the price...alot! They will go back and forth saying that THEIR mechanic looked and the car has no issues. Typical dealer games. Dont play them, let them know what you are willing to pay or you will walk. I dont know how many times the dealer wouldnt go down, I made my offer and walked away. Everytime they were running after me before I even made it back to my car saying they will deal! lol. Be patient and work them.

[johnceggleston]

auto chek is a competitor of carfax. so as long as it does not show, accidents, speedo rollback, 'used as a taxi' or the like, you are probably ok.

 

i met a dad at boy scouts who owns the local chevy and chrysler dealerships. he says he pays a huge amount of money to carfax every year. he said "when a customer asks for a carfax, you have to give it to them. if you do not, it looks like you are hiding something." and if you give them another brand you have to sell them on the validity of that service as well.

 

carfax got it right. convince the public of the value of the product and that forces the car dealers to buy the service.

 

back to the car at hand, it might be interesting to know how long the car has been on the lot. it would also be good to know what your "mechanic" would charge for the repairs. some you may not do, but after you get the car, especially if you have spent all of your money, it may not be easy to pay for any of the needed repairs.

 

lots of us are embarrassed to make a 'low ball' offer on a dealer's car. but if you do, the worst thing that can happen is they say no. the second worst thing that can happen is that they say yes. if they say yes too quickly, maybe you could have done better.

 

but in the final analysis if you like the car and are good with the price then the deal is good for you. the simple truth of the matter is, there is always another bargain out there.

Edited July 24, 2010 by johnceggleston

[Olnick]

Wise words, johnc. I especially enjoyed your "second worst thing!"

[KaraK]

Update: I bought the 01 H6, I picked it up from dealer last night, on my way to work this A.M. the check enj. light came on. 24 miles out of the lot!!! I took it in to dealer, their scan showed 02 sensor, guy said it was driver side, front sensor. I'm kinda wondering if this could be an ongoing issue since the mechanic who looked it over before I bought it said all the 02 sensors had been replaced. Is this sensor visible from under, when on a lift?? "my" mechanic is not a Subaru guy, did he maybe not see it? Is there an issue that would cause this sensor to fail? Dealer said (verbal aggreement) they would fix it on their dime, (they're doing it tommorow). Do I need this in writing before I leave the car with them? Since I bought the car as-is, do I have any recourse if this continues to be an issue? I have been sooo worried about making an expensive mistake, but I didn't know the "self fulfilling prophecy" could make the check enj. light come on. Any "expert" opinions would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.:-\

[Fairtax4me]

They wouldn't give me a Car-Fax, they gave me a "Auto-Check" which seems like a Car-Fax, does this matter??

Autocheck is a 100% valid history reporting service. It's a division of Experian, the credit bureau.

 

However, neither is perfect. Cars are wrecked and repaired every day that don't get reported. They're most useful for finding out where the car came from, and finding previous owners.

 

Oil leaks are common on Subarus, one small leak can leave oil trails over the whole engine which can make it appear that every seal on the thing is leaking when in fact it isn't. On the other hand, it's a Subaru... every seal on the damn thing could be leaking.

 

I don't know that I would have bought it with that many known issues unless the price was just right.

 

The O2 sensor code may be simply due to a pinched wire.

[KaraK]

I may be an idiot- The final price with tax, title, and plates was $8,534.67. Like I said, I've never bought a car from a dealer before, in fact I've never spent more than $2000 for a car before. My last-94 GMC Safari AWD van, bought w/170K. needed lots o' minor stuff, but lasted 5yrs/50K. I was looking forward to a newer "lower" milage car with a reputation for quality. I wasn't afraid of "seeps"; I know how to check fluids. Maybe I should have been, there's a big difference between $2000 and $8,500. So, if someone can assure me I haven't just made the biggest mistake of my life, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks. KK

[Twitch de la Brat]

You're fine.

In my area you made out like a bandit.

Those cars usually go for at least 10k.

 

An O2 sensor is no big deal, unless you have to pass smog :-\

If not, just clear the code and see how long it takes to come back.

If it comes back immediately then you definitely have a problem that needs

fixing.

Fairtax has a point that it could be as simple as a pinched wire.

And a quick feel around the exhaust where the O2 sensor is located could

easily reveal a corroded/broken clip or a pinched wire.

 

Just check around and see what it takes to diagnose a bad O2 sensor on these.

 

Twitch