Petersubaru Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) on my '01 OB the inside of both rotors are slightly glazed, but only on the "outer and inside" edge of the disc..of course when looking at the pads, both edges are worn more then the center...since the pads are lubed and float freely within the carrier plus the guide pins are moving freely and greased..what would be the cause of this type of pattern??..I have searched the web and many people are experienceing the same brake problem..especially on very expensive cars..I found no real answer..except..possibly, I have reversed the pad order of placement, in otherwords some pad companies make an inner and outer pad..reversing the order will cause problems... go to the first answer after the question.. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100211045908AAk9qjF Edited July 28, 2010 by Petersubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 You need to remove the caliper off the slide pins and give the pins a really good cleaning and lubrication. The pads are not lubricated in the caliper, they just float in the caliper. Check the rotor to make sure both sides are still parallel to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 You need to remove the caliper off the slide pins and give the pins a really good cleaning and lubrication. The pads are not lubricated in the caliper, they just float in the caliper. Check the rotor to make sure both sides are still parallel to each other. the pads are lubed up and float freely within the caliper..I even removed the anti-rattle clips to give more room... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Put the anti-rattle clips back. The caliper slide pins are what he's referring to. These are the pins that hold the brake caliper to the hub. One at the top and one at the bottom of the caliper. Remove the bolts from the caliper, set the caliper aside. Now you have two studs with rubber boots on them that point towards the strut assembly. Those pull out of the caliper mounting bracket. Remove them and make sure they are free of rust and dirt, and put some high temperature grease on them. You can use the stuff they sell in the little green or grey packets on the counter at the local parts store. Says "high temp brake grease" or something of that nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 Put the anti-rattle clips back. The caliper slide pins are what he's referring to. These are the pins that hold the brake caliper to the hub. One at the top and one at the bottom of the caliper. Remove the bolts from the caliper, set the caliper aside. Now you have two studs with rubber boots on them that point towards the strut assembly. Those pull out of the caliper mounting bracket. Remove them and make sure they are free of rust and dirt, and put some high temperature grease on them. You can use the stuff they sell in the little green or grey packets on the counter at the local parts store. Says "high temp brake grease" or something of that nature. .....the pins are new since 6 months ago and when just inspected are freely moving...no dirt or rust to speak of.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 .....the pins are new since 6 months ago and when just inspected are freely moving...no dirt or rust to speak of.. were the rotors new 6 months ago?? is it possible the wear patter was there before and the old rotors have worn the new pads?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 were the rotors new 6 months ago?? is it possible the wear patter was there before and the old rotors have worn the new pads?? ..rotors were turned..I never put new pads on an old surface.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Subaru rotors do not always like being turned. Sometimes it is just as cost effective to replace them. If your rotors are warped, it can cause a chain reaction of issues, including causing the pins to bind up cine not only do pads float but calipers do too. After that I am out of ideas unless the car shows up in my driveway. Check to make sure brackets arent bent. And in the words of Click and Clack "When was the accident" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 There aren't any "directional" brake pads that I know if. Usually if there is an inner and an outer pad they are drastically different and one can't be mounted in the wrong location. What type and brand of pads do you have? Brand of rotors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) Subaru rotors do not always like being turned. Sometimes it is just as cost effective to replace them. If your rotors are warped, it can cause a chain reaction of issues, including causing the pins to bind up cine not only do pads float but calipers do too. After that I am out of ideas unless the car shows up in my driveway. Check to make sure brackets arent bent. And in the words of Click and Clack "When was the accident" ..it is my view also that if the rotors were warped I would exchange them for new..turning the rotors for me is just to clean up and give a new surface for the pads..the last turning only took about off .004, and I still have a disc thickness of 24mm (22mm being minimum)..I have also checked both caliper pistons and both sides move in and out very freely..from reading a couple of other web sites (BMW&MB)..some members are asking the same question and experienceing over and over again the problem of pad wear along the outer and inner edges (only for the inside pad)..also all have in common, are numerous visits to the dealerships, and those dealerships are also scratching their heads as to why the inside pad rocks from side to side (these complaints are coming from people whose car is dealership maintained)..a common statement.."you just live with it"..reminds me of many yrs ago of having a particular VW and when asking the mechanic, why is the inside of the rotor slightly glazed?... being told that "it was normal"..all this after they were maintained by the same person..again no answers..it is not exactly like I am a novice at this..having repaired countless brake systems over the last 10 yrs (family and friends) leaves me also scratching my head, especially when some of the brake jobs I have done are still working flawlessly, even after 5 or 6 yrs..my other subaru was done last in 2002..no binding and having even wear on both sides of the rotor, (the cheapest white box stuff money could buy) ..sooo, with new guide pins,rotors turned for fresh pads, pin/guide holes were inspected for cleanliness, lubed sparingly with japanesse slide grease to prevent any hydraulicing of the pins and rubber grease for the pin boots and pads that float freely in the caliper,caliper pistons moving freely, leaves me also out of any answers...My theory at the moment would lead me to believe that the caliper piston diameter is to "small" in relation the pad width..in time I will take some measurements, looking at the relationship of piston size to pad width , comparing my '86 and '01 might reveal something ..time will tell... Edited July 28, 2010 by Petersubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 There aren't any "directional" brake pads that I know if. Usually if there is an inner and an outer pad they are drastically different and one can't be mounted in the wrong location. What type and brand of pads do you have? Brand of rotors? ..Akobono ceramics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 I sort of remeber about the 01's thought to have brakes that were too small for the car, or am I wrong? Runout in the discs can be another issue. Runout is when one side of the rotor is thicker then the other side (same side). I always replace rotors on subaru, i never get them cut. Machine shops around here tend to be a bit agressive turning them, and the cost of new ones aftermarket is reasonable. Have you tried ceramic pads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Ok then. Some other ideas... Piston not returning as it should causing the pad to rub against the rotor slightly more than normal. If it were one side I might suspect a failing hydraulic hose. Both sides, could be master cylinder related, or both hoses failing. Might be old brake fluid (though I doubt that in this case). Could be grease contamination due to a bad axle seal. Worn wheel bearing allowing the rotor to shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Ok then. Some other ideas... Piston not returning as it should causing the pad to rub against the rotor slightly more than normal. If it were one side I might suspect a failing hydraulic hose. Both sides, could be master cylinder related, or both hoses failing. Might be old brake fluid (though I doubt that in this case). Could be grease contamination due to a bad axle seal. Worn wheel bearing allowing the rotor to shift. Hrm, there is something interesting.... Brake line not allowing pressure to return to MC. I would buy a stuck piston or pistons. How is the brake pedal? Compare the pedal to another car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Sticky piston is a possibility as well. How did I forget that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) I believe I found the problem and thankyou all so much for attempting to find a solution for me...dismantled the caliper etc twice in the last couple of hrs and piston size nearly covers the width of the pad , so all is ok ..drove around a bit and decided to look one more time at the guide pins, BECAUSE, it just occurred to me that the pins, one pin on each side was not subaru approved, but aftermarket, (can't remember the name)..even though they seemed to be OK (in and out movement)when greased up, but after each dismantle were tight, difficult to turn or "spin" in the bore,(different from my other brake jobs)..I "miked" them up and no matter how many times I measured, the aftermarket pins were 1.5 thou. thicker....still having the other 2 aftermarket pins in the garage..the ones that I did not use that take the rubber end, ..I could not, unless with force get them into the guide holes ... they were .002 thicker..looking at rockauto there seems to be slightly different designs of the guide pins and No, they do not, all come from one place.. Edited July 29, 2010 by Petersubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share Posted July 29, 2010 "thicker guide pins", could this be the common denominator, that the bmw/mb crowd are experienceing..the dealerships are useing aftermarket products..Naa, that couldn't happen.. if those BMW pins are as expensive as the guide pins for my '86 jetta, who wouldn't use the aftermarket..example,.. since I live in Canada, guide pins and the sleeve to fit into the caliper holder cost..$120 plus 14%tax and that is for one side..the stealership told me that they buy the guide pins from carquest down the street..went there..a little cheaper at $60..I eventually got them at rockauto $6-8 per side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share Posted July 29, 2010 would anybody have the part # for the "green colored" guide pin ,front caliper, for an '01 OB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Dealers will often go with after market parts if an OE replacement is not immediately available. Whether that is with the customers approval is another story. Try here: http://subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partlistbymod.php?model=Outback&subcat=Brakes,+Front+Calipers&year=2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted August 28, 2010 Author Share Posted August 28, 2010 Put the anti-rattle clips back. The caliper slide pins are what he's referring to. These are the pins that hold the brake caliper to the hub. One at the top and one at the bottom of the caliper. Remove the bolts from the caliper, set the caliper aside. Now you have two studs with rubber boots on them that point towards the strut assembly. Those pull out of the caliper mounting bracket. Remove them and make sure they are free of rust and dirt, and put some high temperature grease on them. You can use the stuff they sell in the little green or grey packets on the counter at the local parts store. Says "high temp brake grease" or something of that nature. ..I thought I would revive this thread as a follow- up as to why ( the theory at the moment) I have had for the past 3 yrs the caliper guide pins seizing up on me... received my new caliper guide pins from subaru and at first glance the pins are different from the aftermarket picture above..the subi pins are "beveled" for the "full length" of the pin while the aftermarket have the bevel going up only half way..with the protective rubber boot griping the pin and without that bevel, there is no way for air to travel freely ...so in the long run the pin will hydraulic..in other words the pin will behave like its rusted and without grease...the previous owner had nothing but brake problems and had the car repaired several times at a brake shop and also having installed new aftermarket pins ...I never have any brake noise and decided not to use the pin that takes the rubber end...at least for me, another example of only buying OEM parts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 comparing your 86 to the 01 will show you how cheap they are making them, now. cars are too heavy these days and will wear brakes alot earlier than the light cars they used to make. that why the high end cars are having the same problems that you have discovered, weight weight weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 That's a great observation. Let us know if this does fix the problem in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted August 28, 2010 Author Share Posted August 28, 2010 That's a great observation. Let us know if this does fix the problem in the long run. Yes, I will report back in a few months and also I am very confident that this problem has been worked out ...it all started with my assumption that this newly aquired car (at the time) still had the original subi guide pins which of course it did not have, and not knowing any better at the time, any comparisons of guide pins were aftermarket to aftermarket...this might explain why the rear brakes gave No problems (they still had the original pins).. the 2nd observation, the subi pin will now move easier in and out..personally I wish they would have stayed with the older style guide pin boots.. Guide pins are only part of the equation which means proper grease or lub is equally important..I just like having my rotors look and wear the same on both sides... If you are interested, this thread about grease/lub ..bare with reading it because it gets more interesting starting on pg 2 when I come in... http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1864378&page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Funny someone mentioned the Ford Escort in there. I just rebuilt the front calipers on my neighbors Escort and the lower slide pins were locked up tight. Had to clean the rust out of the guide holes out with a dremel. I've taken to using Wurth CU 800 spray on copper grease on brake parts. 2100° high temp enough? Seems to work well but I'll have to look at the label and see if it has anything detrimental to rubber parts in it. Works great on lug nuts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now